Progress Thread 2004 Comp Orange GT
- Thread starter ctandc
- Start date
I'm decent at what a buddy used to call a 'cheat blend' where you don't spray base a bit below the tape line, but you do clear over it, then wet sand the tape line out. But the New Edge has pretty decent body lines to let me hit sections. And Comp Orange is weird - I've seen three different shades - they were three different brands, all mixed to spec.
So with new tensioner, new idler pulleys, belt and water pump - the OEM Motorcraft alternator bearings felt a bit 'draggy'. Not a fan of aftermarket for alternators, so I normally just order rebuild kits. Chasing down the bearing part #s, regulator etc - randomly ran across a NOS new in the box Motorcraft NEW (not reman) alternator for $100+ the ride. Couldn't pass that up. Hell, junkyard wants $40 for one that might or might not work. I'll install the new and rebuild the original and paint the case while I'm at it. Rebuild kit is only $60 for brushes, regulator, bearings, retainer and cover.
I also noticed how nasty the power steering fluid looked (Hydroboost car of course) so I sucked some out, replaced some etc. Might have pulled a bit too much out and got a bit of air in the system. Slight noise. I'll swap some more out one night after work or this weekend, put the front up and do the tried and true 20 turns lock to lock, check fluid, rinse repeat etc.
I also noticed how nasty the power steering fluid looked (Hydroboost car of course) so I sucked some out, replaced some etc. Might have pulled a bit too much out and got a bit of air in the system. Slight noise. I'll swap some more out one night after work or this weekend, put the front up and do the tried and true 20 turns lock to lock, check fluid, rinse repeat etc.
New alternator came in - got it in installed. Inside one box was the original, unopened (paper shipping tape under original label) Motorcraft NEW 4.6 2v alternator. Seller immediately listed another after I bought this one. Have a feeling he cleared out a parts store / dealer. Even had the spec / test and warranty sheet / warning in the box. I'll rebuild the original and paint the case.
Storming outside - cleaning up the shop and decided to do a quick and dirty cut / polish on the 20+ year old hood paint. Tried out some new spray on ceramic coating my buddies have been raving about. Made by cerakote.
Quick cut with heavy, then fine, then a wipe on / wipe off w/ this cerakote stuff
You can see the chips etc - daily driven - 22 year old paint. Not bad though for minimal effort
Quick cut with heavy, then fine, then a wipe on / wipe off w/ this cerakote stuff
You can see the chips etc - daily driven - 22 year old paint. Not bad though for minimal effort
My '04 is my daily - so a few days ago I notice a noise. Not really "a" noise. Just more of a different 'sound' of the car driving down the road.
It's not a noise where I'm worried about something breaking - it's just that the car started to make a different sound when driving. It's road noise for sure - it differs based on various roads / surfaces etc.
Truth is, I'm sure most people would never notice it. That's fine. Seemed to be most noticeable with the window down coming from the LH wheel / tire. No vibration, no pulling etc - like I said - the road noise from the car was just 'different'. Jacked it up spun the wheel / tire wanted to make sure no bearing noises. Both LCAs, ball joints, tie rods (inner and outer), struts etc - I've already replaced. The only mechanical thing (besides a new part failure - hey it does happen) could be the hub / front wheel bearing.
No play. No noise. Granted they have @ 100K on 'em so wouldn't be a bad idea regardless - but no play / real 'roar' or noise from them.
I wondered if my quick and dirty setting of toe in (after springs / control arms, tie rods etc) was coming back to bite me.
That would be yes. I've got some inner tire wear - not horrible noticeable visually - but I can feel it running my hand across it. I have no one to blame but me - I should have measured camber etc but I did not.
NOTE: The car does not have CC plates and it had Eibach Pro Kit springs on it (since close to when it was new) when I bought it and no weird tire wear. I've since:
- Replaced springs with BMR min (1") drop springs (Old Eibach springs were actually broken on one side)
- New stock replacement lower control arms on both sides (LCA bushings were SHOT)
- KYB replacement struts (I know there are better - but everything better rides WAY firmer - no thanks)
- New inner / outer tie roads
- New rotors / calipers etc
- New ball joints
So I broke out the level and measure camber - converted to degrees - and I'm right at -2 Camber. Okay.
I knew it had a bit too much negative camber for even tire wear - but I know I'm eventually going to replace the 17x8 Bullitt wheels with something wider, maybe even different - so I did put cheapish tires on the front when they needed replacement.
- I AM NOT installing CC plates. No matter how good they are, they all make noise. Spherical bearings.
So I took a look and the top strut bushing needs to be replaced. I forgot to order them when I replaced struts. I can see cracks in the rubber. The lower bushing / bump stops were fine when I replaced struts.
So apparently you can't just order that bushing. It's a 'strut mount' kit. Per side. A few manufacturers. Includes bumpstop / bushing on top of OEM bellows / sleeve, metal spacer and top strut bushing. They range from $20-50 - per side. Really?
Just ordered the Prothane replacement - it includes both sides (metal spacer, top strut bushings, and bushing on bellows) - basically for the cost of one side of OEM stuff.
That should help to at least retain alignment settings and not let everything sag. I'll install those and see if my camber changes. If not enough, I'll loosen the strut to spindle bolts and put outward pressure on the strut when tightening to see if I can get rid of a bit of that negative camber. If that doesn't work, I'll drill the OEM rivets on the top plate and see if there's any more slack in there.
And if THAT doesn't work? I'll go with camber bolts.
It's not a noise where I'm worried about something breaking - it's just that the car started to make a different sound when driving. It's road noise for sure - it differs based on various roads / surfaces etc.
Truth is, I'm sure most people would never notice it. That's fine. Seemed to be most noticeable with the window down coming from the LH wheel / tire. No vibration, no pulling etc - like I said - the road noise from the car was just 'different'. Jacked it up spun the wheel / tire wanted to make sure no bearing noises. Both LCAs, ball joints, tie rods (inner and outer), struts etc - I've already replaced. The only mechanical thing (besides a new part failure - hey it does happen) could be the hub / front wheel bearing.
No play. No noise. Granted they have @ 100K on 'em so wouldn't be a bad idea regardless - but no play / real 'roar' or noise from them.
I wondered if my quick and dirty setting of toe in (after springs / control arms, tie rods etc) was coming back to bite me.
That would be yes. I've got some inner tire wear - not horrible noticeable visually - but I can feel it running my hand across it. I have no one to blame but me - I should have measured camber etc but I did not.
NOTE: The car does not have CC plates and it had Eibach Pro Kit springs on it (since close to when it was new) when I bought it and no weird tire wear. I've since:
- Replaced springs with BMR min (1") drop springs (Old Eibach springs were actually broken on one side)
- New stock replacement lower control arms on both sides (LCA bushings were SHOT)
- KYB replacement struts (I know there are better - but everything better rides WAY firmer - no thanks)
- New inner / outer tie roads
- New rotors / calipers etc
- New ball joints
So I broke out the level and measure camber - converted to degrees - and I'm right at -2 Camber. Okay.
I knew it had a bit too much negative camber for even tire wear - but I know I'm eventually going to replace the 17x8 Bullitt wheels with something wider, maybe even different - so I did put cheapish tires on the front when they needed replacement.
- I AM NOT installing CC plates. No matter how good they are, they all make noise. Spherical bearings.
So I took a look and the top strut bushing needs to be replaced. I forgot to order them when I replaced struts. I can see cracks in the rubber. The lower bushing / bump stops were fine when I replaced struts.
So apparently you can't just order that bushing. It's a 'strut mount' kit. Per side. A few manufacturers. Includes bumpstop / bushing on top of OEM bellows / sleeve, metal spacer and top strut bushing. They range from $20-50 - per side. Really?
Just ordered the Prothane replacement - it includes both sides (metal spacer, top strut bushings, and bushing on bellows) - basically for the cost of one side of OEM stuff.
That should help to at least retain alignment settings and not let everything sag. I'll install those and see if my camber changes. If not enough, I'll loosen the strut to spindle bolts and put outward pressure on the strut when tightening to see if I can get rid of a bit of that negative camber. If that doesn't work, I'll drill the OEM rivets on the top plate and see if there's any more slack in there.
And if THAT doesn't work? I'll go with camber bolts.
When my hub was failing, it made a roar/thumping type noise, but I was never able to feel any movement in the wheel when i jacked it up and spun. No rough feel as well. I had to pull the rotor off and put my hands on the hub and spin it and that's when i felt the roughness.
Tires can also make road noise as well that might feel like a wheel bearing/hub. Highly depends on the tire.
I have MM caster/cambler plates on both my Mustangs and have never heard a peep out of them. In fact my '00 GT is more of a semi-daily driver, so all my parts were picked with NVH in mind. With eibachs and bilstiens and my MM c/c plates i don't get any suspension noises at all.
Tires can also make road noise as well that might feel like a wheel bearing/hub. Highly depends on the tire.
I have MM caster/cambler plates on both my Mustangs and have never heard a peep out of them. In fact my '00 GT is more of a semi-daily driver, so all my parts were picked with NVH in mind. With eibachs and bilstiens and my MM c/c plates i don't get any suspension noises at all.
squeak93
15 Year Member
+1 for MM 4 bolts plates. If they make any noise my exhaust covers it up for sure. 
Tire tread feathering will make noises depending on road type/surface. Sounds from your description that the toe may need a slight adjustment and be less agressive. Should solve both tire wear and what you're likely hearing.
At the age and miles, bearings (ford ones) are not a bad investment and cheap overall. Do it before a new alignment just to make sure the other bearings didn't' have play to jack with the specs.
Tire tread feathering will make noises depending on road type/surface. Sounds from your description that the toe may need a slight adjustment and be less agressive. Should solve both tire wear and what you're likely hearing.
At the age and miles, bearings (ford ones) are not a bad investment and cheap overall. Do it before a new alignment just to make sure the other bearings didn't' have play to jack with the specs.
Good to know - thanks. If it comes to point I need that extra adjustment I'll definitely be going with MM - I just don't think I should need to. We shall see.
I want to upgrade to Cobra brakes - so odds are I'll just do the hubs / wheel bearings while I'm in there for that.
Unless my memory has failed me (which is quite possible) I thought too much toe in on these chassis caused outer tire wear? The noise only started in the past few months. It wasn't there last Fall for example. Only really hear it when the driver's window is down while driving. It's louder on certain road surfaces, but it definitely wasn't there before. Of course I could just be going crazy.+1 for MM 4 bolts plates. If they make any noise my exhaust covers it up for sure.
Tire tread feathering will make noises depending on road type/surface. Sounds from your description that the toe may need a slight adjustment and be less agressive. Should solve both tire wear and what you're likely hearing.
At the age and miles, bearings (ford ones) are not a bad investment and cheap overall. Do it before a new alignment just to make sure the other bearings didn't' have play to jack with the specs.
Toe in is usually inner wear. Toe out is outer wear. It's due to the caster angle that these cars are set with. The tops of the struts are raked back so when the wheels tilt in, they kinda roll over the edge of the tire a little bit.
Definitely go Cobra brakes. One of my fav mods on this chassis
Definitely go Cobra brakes. One of my fav mods on this chassis
Really? Fair enough. I'll tighten the TOE IN up and see what it does.
Think 1/8 TOTAL Toe in is too much?
It's at the upper end of the range. 1/8" total toe in is about 28 degrees total with a 245/45/17. 1/16" is about 18 degrees total toe. I guess the question is how much deflection do you expect in your rubber control arm bushings? The tighter they are, the less toe in.
This is for a 2004 cobra, but should be close. looks like 28 degrees is your max recommended limit
squeak93
15 Year Member
Mine is set at .11 and .12 toe on each side. Which is about max I'd want to run. maybe .10 total if you want something super responsive.
.50 per side that you have is a clear indication of your inner tire wear.
.50 per side that you have is a clear indication of your inner tire wear.
Always something - Went to adjust my clutch cable the other day (adjustable cable / quandrant / firewall adjustre) as I haven't done it since I installed the new cable a while back. Adjusted it per Max Motorsports instructions and my sometimes noisy T/O bearing started making noise with the clutch engaged (pedal out) - I can hear it at low speeds.
Readjusted (loosened cable) noise is mostly gone now. Clutch engages / disengages smoothly, no grinds, no nibbles, no slipping. Hoping it's not a warning it's getting ready to go. May try to get some grease in there this week.
I have enough to without an unplanned clutch job.
Readjusted (loosened cable) noise is mostly gone now. Clutch engages / disengages smoothly, no grinds, no nibbles, no slipping. Hoping it's not a warning it's getting ready to go. May try to get some grease in there this week.
I have enough to without an unplanned clutch job.
Went back to adjust the toe on the car. I don't put a ton of miles on it - I've used the measure total toe method and I've used the string method before. I used to have a guy in an alignment shop who knew what he was doing - that shop got sold. Yet to find a decent replacement.
Friend of mine spent A LOT of years racing and I finally tried his route.
Two jack stands on either side of the car. String run from front to rear jack stand - making sure the string runs across close to middle of wheel hub (height) it matches front and rear and it's equidistant from the hubs (out).
BEFORE doing all this (a pain by yourself) drive onto laid out trash bags under each front tire and go ahead and break tie rod lock nut loose.
Once setup use a digital caliper to measure distance of the wheel edge / flat to the string on the front and rear side.
Subtract rear measurement from front. If it's a positive number it's TOE IN
Negative TOE OUT
Adjust / measure / adjust measure. Took quite a bit of TOE IN out. Easier to use MM to measure then convert to " then convert to degrees. Right around .17° on each wheel. Within spec at least.
Got to talking to a friend back in SC and he told me about this thing:
gyraline.com
Found a discount code. Got it for about the cost of an alignment. Call me curious. Waiting on it to show up. He says he's used it more than a few times on his and friends' vehicles and they compared it to the alignment machine at his brother's shop and they were super impressed how close to dead on it was. We shall see. Curious if the poly upper strut bushings (replacing the cracked rubber originals) changed the camber up front.
Friend of mine spent A LOT of years racing and I finally tried his route.
Two jack stands on either side of the car. String run from front to rear jack stand - making sure the string runs across close to middle of wheel hub (height) it matches front and rear and it's equidistant from the hubs (out).
BEFORE doing all this (a pain by yourself) drive onto laid out trash bags under each front tire and go ahead and break tie rod lock nut loose.
Once setup use a digital caliper to measure distance of the wheel edge / flat to the string on the front and rear side.
Subtract rear measurement from front. If it's a positive number it's TOE IN
Negative TOE OUT
Adjust / measure / adjust measure. Took quite a bit of TOE IN out. Easier to use MM to measure then convert to " then convert to degrees. Right around .17° on each wheel. Within spec at least.
Got to talking to a friend back in SC and he told me about this thing:
Gyraline: The DIY Wheel Alignment Solution
Gyraline is an app and tool kit that allows anybody to do an extremely accurate four wheel alignment at home
gyraline.com
Found a discount code. Got it for about the cost of an alignment. Call me curious. Waiting on it to show up. He says he's used it more than a few times on his and friends' vehicles and they compared it to the alignment machine at his brother's shop and they were super impressed how close to dead on it was. We shall see. Curious if the poly upper strut bushings (replacing the cracked rubber originals) changed the camber up front.
The Gyraline gadget should be here Tuesday. Meanwhile, a buddy found his metal toe plates he used when his BIL was racing so he dropped them off.
Just measured.
Downside this only measures total toe
Upside the measurement is easy to get for one person (the plates have slots to hold each tape measure - one for front of wheel, one for rear of wheel and the plate is designed to stay flush up against the wheel and plates have magnet to hold the tape in place so one man operation is not a huge pain in the ass.
Upside - the measuring tapes that comes with these plates is advertised to be 1/32" tapes
Downside - only the first 12" is marked with 1/32 marks -so getting a measurement down to 1/32" accuracy damn near impossible w/o another pair of hands
So looks like I have a tick less than 1/4" total toe in which converts to .557 degrees total toe in. Still a bit more than I'd like.
I'm sure many of you are wondering "Why mess with all this? Why not just take it somewhere?"
$100-150 around my area for an alignment. Skill of said person doing alignment is all over the place. Add to that the fact that many shops will not make any adjustments outside of OEM recommended specs. For years I "had a guy" who did frame / wheel alignments and had his own shop. He did custom alignments for people. He actually knew what toe / caster / camber meant and how it effects different platforms / chassis.
I remember one time he was working with a new customer who had "been all over and his car still didn't drive right and had weird tire wear."
He put it on the alignment rack, got the measurements. Cycled the front suspension, resettled it, remeasured it. Test drive. Back on rack. Measure etc.
Turns out the vehicle wasn't square. It was bought used - so telling whether it took a hit or not etc. On frame rack, adjusted. Test drive. Back to alignment rack. Test drive to cycle suspension / recheck / adjust. Fixed.
How many shops will do that? Most pull it on the rack, hook up the machine. Look at the computer read out, and adjust if it's out of OEM spec. I know some that charge to CHECK The alignment and the charge more to ADJUST. So yeah - If I can find a tool that works without dealing with all that - I can do it after hours / weekends / nights in my own shop? Amen.
Just measured.
Downside this only measures total toe
Upside the measurement is easy to get for one person (the plates have slots to hold each tape measure - one for front of wheel, one for rear of wheel and the plate is designed to stay flush up against the wheel and plates have magnet to hold the tape in place so one man operation is not a huge pain in the ass.
Upside - the measuring tapes that comes with these plates is advertised to be 1/32" tapes
Downside - only the first 12" is marked with 1/32 marks -so getting a measurement down to 1/32" accuracy damn near impossible w/o another pair of hands
So looks like I have a tick less than 1/4" total toe in which converts to .557 degrees total toe in. Still a bit more than I'd like.
I'm sure many of you are wondering "Why mess with all this? Why not just take it somewhere?"
$100-150 around my area for an alignment. Skill of said person doing alignment is all over the place. Add to that the fact that many shops will not make any adjustments outside of OEM recommended specs. For years I "had a guy" who did frame / wheel alignments and had his own shop. He did custom alignments for people. He actually knew what toe / caster / camber meant and how it effects different platforms / chassis.
I remember one time he was working with a new customer who had "been all over and his car still didn't drive right and had weird tire wear."
He put it on the alignment rack, got the measurements. Cycled the front suspension, resettled it, remeasured it. Test drive. Back on rack. Measure etc.
Turns out the vehicle wasn't square. It was bought used - so telling whether it took a hit or not etc. On frame rack, adjusted. Test drive. Back to alignment rack. Test drive to cycle suspension / recheck / adjust. Fixed.
How many shops will do that? Most pull it on the rack, hook up the machine. Look at the computer read out, and adjust if it's out of OEM spec. I know some that charge to CHECK The alignment and the charge more to ADJUST. So yeah - If I can find a tool that works without dealing with all that - I can do it after hours / weekends / nights in my own shop? Amen.
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