3.8 To 4.6 Swap Question

[Michael Lemire]

Hey guys so I just did a 98 3.8 to a 97 4.6 swap and swapped everything but now I've ran into a issue I start the car and it starts up for a second but then dies, any ideas??

 

[wmburns]

Do you have an ODB2 scanner that is capable of monitoring operational PID's? If you did it could make real short work of this problem.

Here's some information on an affordable Windows ODB2 scanner.
ForScan ODB2 scanner w ELM327 USB
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/resources/forscan-odb2-scanner-w-elm327-usb.57/

Some of the pieces of information would be:

• Open or closed loop? IE is it quitting when switches from open loop to closed loop?
• MAF flow.
• RPM

But if looking for non OBD2 things to try, what happens if the MAF sensor is disconnected?

 

[Michael Lemire]

Well as soon as I put the key in and turn it in the on position the theft light is flashing at me like crazy and the slows down after 5 mins and then shuts off but still can't start it after that. Checked codes and got u145, I've changed the ecu,ccrm,gauge cluster, passenger fender harness, and the ignition switch along with the pats thingy in the steering column

 

[wmburns]

The theft light is supposed to slow blink when the key is out. This indicates the PATS system is in standby.

Question. Just what EXACTLY have you done to reprogram PATS after replacing key parts that require PATS to be reprogrammed (cluster, PCM, key)?

The way to trouble shoot PATS is to turn the key on but do NOT crank. The cluster performs a "lamp test" and then reads the PATS key. IF the theft light goes out after a 3 second "prove out", that means the key has been read and accepted. Anything else indicates a problem which certain seems to be true here.

Here's some more information:

1996+ Crank with no start check list
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/4-6l-tech/336452-1997-mustang-wont-ignite.html#2984838

Buuuuuuut you do have a "U" type code which is normally associated with module communications or module self tests.

I can't find the DTC code U145 in my Ford reference. Normally these codes are 4 digits. I can find a U1451 code that is associated with the PATS system. Best not to guess here. But if you haven't reprogrammed PATS after all the work done, that seems like a great place to start.

 

[Michael Lemire]

I havnt reprogrammed anything because I got the key the ecu,ccrm,and pats thing in the coloum and the gauge cluster all from the same car just swapped everything and the light flashed rapidly for like 5 mins then starts to blink slow and then goes away after another 5 mins and yeah sorry it's the u1451

 

[Michael Lemire]

And the theft light doesn't flash at all with the key out only when I put the key into the on on position and like I said flash rapidly for about 5 mins and then start a to flash slow for another 5 mins and then goes and I tried starting it after it's out but still the same result it turns over starts and and dies off after like 3 secs

 

[wmburns]

I havnt reprogrammed anything because I got the key the ecu,ccrm,and pats thing in the coloum and the gauge cluster all from the same car just swapped everything and the light flashed rapidly for like 5 mins then starts to blink slow and then goes away after another 5 mins and yeah sorry it's the u1451

>>From Ford service manual
U1451 SCP Invalid or Missing Data for Anti-Theft module Go to Workshop Manual Section 419-01, Anti-Theft a
<<

This is a 1998 correct? Confirm that you also swapped the PATS control module. I'm going to assume not since it is not located in the steering column.

Anti-Theft Controller Module, Coupe
C403
LH rear of trunk, behind trim panel

There are a lengthy series of pinpoint tests in the Ford service manual. If interested in getting a copy for yourself I maybe able to help. PM if interested.

OBTW, the PATS system is programmed differently between the 96-97 model years and the 98 model year. Not sure if this will be an issue or not. But this may turn out to be at the heart of the problem as the body wiring harness is different between 98 and 96-97.

The easiest way to work around this may turn out to be "disable PATS".

 

[Michael Lemire]

So my 98 has the module in the truck I can't seem to find it on the 97

 

[Michael Lemire]

Here is the one in my trunk

 

[wmburns]

So I can understand. The donor Mustang GT car is a 1997. The target car is a 1998.

The PCM, Cluster, and key is from the 1997 correct?

The 1997 does NOT have a PATS control module in the trunk but the 1998 does?

Is it known for certain that the donor car came with PATS? Remember that PATS is a factory option.

Have you tried disconnecting the electrical connection to the PATS control module?

Are you sure that the module in the trunk isn't really the remote keyless entry module?

Has this information been useful?

 

[Michael Lemire]

So I was wrong what I thought was the control module was actually just the radio receiver and I tore apart the 97 trying to find the control module, tore apart the trunk and found nothing tore apart the dash and and under the steering coloum and found nothing, and yes the 97 did come with PATS I pulled the ignition and found the stock PATS module from 97 around it and the keys are stock keys that are cheap. And yes everything is from the 97 got swapped and I drove the 97 prior to the swap

 

[Michael Lemire]

The stock keys are "chipped"

 

[wmburns]

The "thing" around the ignition switch is the PATS transceiver. It is NOT the PATS control module. Swapping the PATS transceiver does not affect the programming. It can be done as a simple parts swap.

Remote/Keyless Entry Module, Coupe
C400
LH rear of trunk, behind side trim
C401
LH rear of trunk, behind side trim

Anti-Theft Controller Module, Coupe
C403
LH rear of trunk, behind trim panel
C404
LH rear of trunk, behind trim panel

Perhaps the "thing" in the trunk that you think is a radio is actually part of the remote keyless entry. The thing that looks like an radio antenna is actually the antenna for the remote keyless entry.

 

[Michael Lemire]

Oh ok and well I looked in the trunk of the 97 and there is nothing of the sort there

 

[wmburns]

The 1999+ model year uses an electronic cluster and is where the PATS module lives. Hence the reason why so many posts will say to swap the cluster.

The 1998- uses a separate PATS control module. Sooooooo if trying to avoid re-programming PATS it would be necessary to have the PCM, PATS control module and keys from the donor car.

It seems to me that without the PATS control module from the donor car the way around this is to just have the PATS re-programmed. I did give some information on how to do it yourself. Or call a mobile locksmith. Or get a custom turn with PATS disabled.

 

[Neuron]

The 1999+ model year uses an electronic cluster and is where the PATS module lives. Hence the reason why so many posts will say to swap the cluster.

The 1998- uses a separate PATS control module. Sooooooo if trying to avoid re-programming PATS it would be necessary to have the PCM, PATS control module and keys from the donor car.

It seems to me that without the PATS control module from the donor car the way around this is to just have the PATS re-programmed. I did give some information on how to do it yourself. Or call a mobile locksmith. Or get a custom turn with PATS disabled.

How do you reprogram the replacement cluster PATS when changing in 1999-2004?

 

[wmburns]

How do you reprogram the replacement cluster PATS when changing in 1999-2004?

See post #2 for a possible DIY solution.

ForScan ODB2 scanner w ELM327 USB
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/resources/forscan-odb2-scanner-w-elm327-usb.57/