302 Engine build....

[65fastbackresto]

Trying to save money, been talking to my engine builder. I`m looking for answers on why he wants what he wants.

He is being very specific on the block he wants to build, he wants a 81 or older block because of stronger bottom end and 2 piece rear main seals. They are also externally balanced. He said the cranks are much stronger in the older motors, and for my application, this is a better buy and will save me money. I`m looking for around 300 hp for less then $3000 in the longblock.

He is gonna get me some aluminum heads with 1.94 intake and 1.50 exhaust valvles, also port matched to the gaskets. A cam just big enough to lope at idle, without having to install a stall torque convertor. I`m running a C-4 with a stage 3 shift kit.

I know next too nothing about motors, anyone have any input on this issue? Sound like a good start?

FYI, this builder has got the best reputation around this area, like EVERYBODY is recommending him for this job.

 

[jikelly]

Those valves sizes are pretty big actually. The heads should flow well, but I'll tell you I made a killer 302 using a set of pocket ported 89 GT heads. Aluminum heads are an improvement over cast iron since they save you like 40lbs.

Oh on my engine I had the wieand stealth manifold, headers, and a comp Xtreme 268 cam. It was a great combination.

Invest in one of those desktop dyno programs or something. That's how I figured out my combination of parts. I think it really helped me maximize my engine setup.

 

[brianj5600]

If you are only looking for 300hp, I think a roller block is the be route. They are good for around 500hp. They are not stressed at that level and hydraulic roller would be nice.

 

[65fastbackresto]

300 hp was being conservative

I`d like to have a lot more, but the builder has a 6 month warrenty on the motor, and he wont warrenty much more then that amount of hp.

 

[Max Power]

I think your builder is on the right track. It's not like he is recomending anything exotic or expensive.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I know one thing for sure

The older blocks are hard to find for some reason, took me like 30 phone calls to locate one.

 

[rbohm]

for 300hp any block and crank can be used. also 300hp is a good level for a street engine. with the right suspension and gearing you should run in the mid 14's fairly easily.

 

[65fastbackresto]

The purpose for my build

Is to be able to smoke a tire and bark 2nd gear. At 39 years old....doesn`t seem like we grow outta some stuff....

 

[65fastbackresto]

FINALLY LOCATED MOTOR

Out of 1980 Grand Marquis, complete with all brackets, flywheel, harmonic balancer and pulleys. Motor is still in the car actually, he is gonna cut it out and sell to me for $250.

Anybody know if most of this stuff will work in my car?

 

[Sicarius428]

HO roller motors are great for a mild to mid street car. They are also very easy to come by and parts are everwhere. 300rwhp shouldn't be too hard to obtain. There are plenty of fuel injected 5.0s with 300rwhp with just heads/intake/cam setups with smog equipment. It is true that the older blocks are stronger but for 300hp its not necessary. The breaking point of the HO motors are 450ish. If you were going 351 I would suggest going with an early block... preferably a mexican...
Kevin

 

[Sicarius428]

Should work fine. It sounds like he is just going to use the shortblock and freshen it up. Might want to ask if he can bore it out to 306... might as well since he is going to take it apart.
Kevin

 

[palerider94]

I thought this was an interesting article on 302 upgrade w/o cam swap. http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford_302_v8_engine_buildup/

 

[65fastbackresto]

That is a very intersting article.

Are the AFR heads high dollar?

 

[65fastbackresto]

Wow

For about $1400 those heads look like a pretty good deal, I was looking at $1100 for some others.

 

[Sicarius428]

I would like to know what carb they used on the baseline. The road demon was added with the heads and exhaust. 100hp sounds about right for that. Also helps that they are running a very tight and fresh shortblock. Stock the HO was rated about 225ish... if they were able to get almost 280 for their stock shortblock base line(with unknown carb), they got a very good engine builder. Don't get me wrong. AFRs are fantastic heads but I think the article may be bloating it up a tad.
Kevin

 

[65fastbackresto]

I figured the same thing...

But the AFR`s have a 3 angle grind on the valves, the $1100 set didnt. I know thats got to help, but I`m not sure how much a machine shop would charge to do the same thing.

 

[palerider94]

I see the AFRs on ebay for $1334 buyt it now but have them set up for make an offer - be curious to see how much more they would be than $1100. I've got a 289 performer and 600 holley holley on 70 302. I'm starting to think I'd like to swap myheads out but keep same carb and intake - what do you guys think?




http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AFR-...119736793QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180119736793

 

[joncash]

But the AFR`s have a 3 angle grind on the valves, the $1100 set didnt. I know thats got to help, but I'm not sure how much a machine shop would charge to do the same thing.

AFR's are $1400 because they are CNC (read: robotically) ported. A 3-angle valve job is pretty much standard fare for just about any halfway decent aluminum cylinder head, so don't sweat that. I've got a set of AFR 165's on my '90 and their build quality is top notch, they'll mean good power and reliability. What brand is your builder wanting to use? If you want to save a little Edelbrock's are also one of the best around, and their SBF heads come port-matched out of the box.

65fastbackresto, your initial post has left me with a few other questions: How is buying an older motor supposed to save you money? Like all the others are saying, a latemodel hydraulic roller block is more than capable of 300 horse and you'll be more likely to find a virgin (unrebuilt) core. Why does the builder WANT a 2-piece rear main seal block? Does he like leaks?

Also, all small block fords are externally balanced, they just have a different counterweight value depending on the year. On or about 1980 (someone must know exactly) Ford went from a 28.2 oz counterweight to a 50 oz. counterweight.
This is not an issue as long as the crank, damper, and flexplate carry the same value.

I'm just aiming to clear a few things up because I went through the same thing w/ my first engine build. You're going to get pulled in ten different directions if you ask ten different people for engine advice. Before you get invested financially, do some real research on your project. Look into the 5.0 market and consider taking advantage of some of the technology that has been made available in the past two decades.

--Mike

 

[bnickel]

why not just ask your engine builder whay he wants the specific parts he wants. i would question everything he asks for personally. i always do. don't ask in a demeaning way though, just be curious. if he won't give you specific answers go elsewhere. i hate those engine builders that keep secrets from the person they are building the engine for.

 

[mustangdave]

They started thinning the blocks in early to mid 70's.
All 302's r externally balanced.
A 2 piece seal is a disadvantage due to leaks.
A roller block will handle a more aggressive cam with better manners.
Either will work fine for 300 h.p.