302 to a 351W, advice and suggestions please

UMDSmith · Jul 15, 2004

Hey guys, need some advice/help.

Found a 351W for 200 bucks, still runs as well.

My question is, how easy is the changeup, and do most of the 302 parts bolt to the 351? Also, would it be easier to stay efi or go carbed??

I know the 351 is in the same block family, but I am not certain how easy the swap is. I have been told it isn't hard, but wanted some tech advice.

I did a search and suprisingly didn't find much on this.

monsterstang70 · Jul 15, 2004

If your car is already EFI, stay wit it. They are EFI intakes for the 351W. I'm not totally sure about the pullies but some of them should be interchangeable bc the Windsor is pretty much just a taller 302. Heres a link for the 351W fox conversion. http://www.kaufmannproducts.com/mustangs.htm. comes with Full length headers, new designed dual sump oil pan with hard line pickup, complete motor mount assembly with insulators, spacers, and brackets if applicable for like 750 bux

FLA5.0 · Jul 15, 2004

What's the 351 out of...if you're lucky it'll be a later model with the higher lifter-boss block for roller lifters. You will still be able to use your SEFI upper, if you don't mind the stock plenum, but you'll have to buy a 351 EFI lower and they're not cheap. Also 351/Fox headers, 351 dist., oil pump pickup and pan, and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm overlooking...let us know if you do the swap and how it works out, I've been kicking around the idea myself...a little scared of the ECU and how it would respond.

408stroker5.0 · Jul 15, 2004

I'd say carb is cheaper and easier (Way Easier) from personal experience. Don't forget you will most likely need a cowl hood as the 351W is higher then a 302. You will need a different flywheel and balancer as the 351 uses a 28oz balance were as a 302HO uses 50oz. You will need header's as well. First of all you really need to decide if you want to go carb or EFI. For Carb you need to buy an intake and carb which may have came with the engine you bought, but an aftermarket setup (Edelbrock, BG, Holley etc.) would a better idea if you want to get some performance out of it. Depending on what year the 351 is you can use the distributor it came with. You need a dual sump oil pan which may have came with your engine already depending on what it's out of. If you go the carb way you will have to change the fuel system and ignition set up as well, which is fairly easy. That's just a quick sum up, I'm probably missing a couple of details but Otherwise it's pretty straight forward. Stock Mount's, bellhousing etc. etc. will all bolt right up. Like I said above decide which way you want to go and then we can probably provide more detail's. List what the 351 your looking at comes with also.

UMDSmith · Jul 15, 2004

Its a 351 out of an old 12 passenger ford van. Still turns over and runs nicely. Not certain on the model year of the van. I don't think it is the 351 modified, I am fairly certain it is the standard windsor. Its still in the rough stages of talking to the guy, but it is the first one I have found and at a great price to boot. Thanks for the link as well, it is VERY helpful.

UMDSmith · Jul 15, 2004

FLA5.0, that is my big issue is the ecu. If I can figure out a way to read the code into my computer, I could easily reprogram it once I figured it out (almost having a comp sci degree SHOULD pay off in some way right??). Aside from that though, that was my main issue and possible changeover to carb. With a carbed setup, it would definatly be simple, but I would rather stay with the efi personally.

5.0 HOtrain · Jul 15, 2004

STROKE IT LARGE!

Carbed setup, #'s in sig. Just me though, (and 408stroker5.0)
mike.

FLA5.0 · Jul 16, 2004

UMDSmith said:
FLA5.0, that is my big issue is the ecu. If I can figure out a way to read the code into my computer, I could easily reprogram it once I figured it out (almost having a comp sci degree SHOULD pay off in some way right??). Aside from that though, that was my main issue and possible changeover to carb. With a carbed setup, it would definatly be simple, but I would rather stay with the efi personally.

I talked to a friend of mine today that has done it. He said he used a 93 cobra upper plenum on a GT-40 style 5.8 lower, (Ford Racing sells these - $$$). The 5.0 accessory drive can be used with a longer belt I'm told but you may need to modify it a bit and use a crank spacer.
I read that you can buy a mounting plate from Ford Racing that will allow you to use your stock power steering pump and a/c compressor.
If your putting it in your 89 you won't need to, but if it's destined for a pre-86 or a 86-93 non-V8, you will need a double hump crossmember and all years will require a set of headers that will clear the steering shaft.
But nobody says anything about the ECU...I'm assuming that "almost a direct bolt-in replacement" means that you can hook up all your sensors and go, but my thinking is that with more cubes, torque, and horses you will need more air, fuel, and spark. It makes sense to me that bigger injectors, fuel rail, MAF, TB, EGR spacer, fuel pump and most likely aftermarket dist would be in order. However I'm still learning the ropes of computer-managed engine systems myself and I just don't know if the stock setup would work or not.
Sorry, but at least this will bump you up and maybe someone with more knowledge on this topic will pick it up...keep us posted!

UMDSmith · Jul 17, 2004

Thanks a ton, yeah it would be dropped in the 89, but I think I may hold off a bit now. I'll probably still buy the engine, but I need to do some reading on the issue.

jnobles06 · Jul 25, 2004

if the engine came out of an econoline van its the 351 w/ a 9.2 deck not the 9.5. i have that same engine in my 95' and its in my friends 94'. just thought you might be able to use that when ordering parts. he went efi and i am carbed. my engine is in my car his still isnt. hes been working on it for 3 months. hes using the edelbrock upper intake off of the 5.0 and a new lower one for the 351. i dont think he had to change the computer but he did have to get a new distributor. his engine should be in this week then we can see if it runs correctly or not lol.

Michael Yount · Jul 25, 2004

jnobles - I though the 9.2" deck height was for Cleveland blocks - that right? Given the different height, it takes a different intake too - different from both the 302 (8.2" height) and the 351W (9.5" height). Does anyone make an efi lower for a 9.2" deck height 351?

Also, if you go carb, and replace the dizzy, remember the 351 cam is a different firing order than the HO cam - so match up your dizzy wiring with whatever cam you use.

jnobles06 · Jul 25, 2004

is it cleveland? i wasnt sure b/c im not that familiar with 351's. mine is already in the car running but i was told it was a 351w w/ a 9.2 deck. maybe he was wrong. ill have to check it out. i know my friends is efi and he had to buy a different lower intake but is using the same upper off of the 5.0. i didnt think a 9.5 carbed would fit under the stock hood of a 95'

hllon4whls · Jul 25, 2004

IMO it is only worth the cost if you want to stroke it or pass the hp limits of a 302 block and want a reasonably cheap way to go.

Intake, dist, headers, oilpan all need to be changed. Heads, cam can all be used. The stock ECU will run the 351 just fine. Just need the right sized injectors. If you put that motor in the car stock, plan on it being slower than your 302. It made about 160 hp from the factory.

Michael Yount · Jul 25, 2004

jnobles - I'm pretty sure the 351C has the 9.2" deck height; the 351W has the 9.5. I doubt he's got a Cleveland block. If it's got efi with a 302-based upper bolted to a 351 lower, I'd bet money it's a 351W with the 9.5" deck height.

5.0 HOtrain · Jul 26, 2004

Michael Yount said:
jnobles - I'm pretty sure the 351C has the 9.2" deck height; the 351W has the 9.5. I doubt he's got a Cleveland block. If it's got efi with a 302-based upper bolted to a 351 lower, I'd bet money it's a 351W with the 9.5" deck height.

The only 9.2 windsor stuff is aftermarket or svo.
mike.

Michael Yount · Jul 26, 2004

5.0 HO train - "9.2 windsor stuff" - I'm confused again. What do you mean by 9.2 windsor stuff if the 9.2" deck height is the Cleveland motor? Trying to learn here...

5.0 HOtrain · Jul 26, 2004

You can get a 351 windsor block with the 9.2 deck height from dart,fms, ect... All factory 351W's were 9.5 (or 9.48 in 69') I believe the only factory 9.2 was the cleavland.

FLA5.0 · Jul 26, 2004

Also, if you go carb, and replace the dizzy, remember the 351 cam is a different firing order than the HO cam - so match up your dizzy wiring with whatever cam you use. --Quote

Are you sure about this? I thought the H.O. used the 351 firing order...where "base" 5.0's used the standard 302 firing order.

hllon4whls · Jul 26, 2004

FLA5.0 said:
Also, if you go carb, and replace the dizzy, remember the 351 cam is a different firing order than the HO cam - so match up your dizzy wiring with whatever cam you use. --Quote

Are you sure about this? I thought the H.O. used the 351 firing order...where "base" 5.0's used the standard 302 firing order.

302HO=351 firing order.

Michael Yount · Jul 26, 2004

Dart also sells an 8.7" deck height Windsor-style 302 block -- although, once we start altering the deck heights, I'm not sure it even makes sense to reference the cubes any more. As it is, the deck height (and commensurate rotating part changes) is really the only thing that differentiates the 351W from the 302. Seems like we have -- factory - 8.2 302 blocks, 9.5W blocks, 9.2C blocks - and aftermarket 8.2, 8.7, 9.2 and 9.5 windsor-style blocks.

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