306+what= 325 streetable horsepower

[nmcgrawj]

Well actually from what i have read, etc. a nitrous motor that is build for that purpose only, will not make as much horsepower N/A. Most people would use a nitrous cam designed to expell the nitrous quicker.... you know more favorable to the exhaust. In a naturally aspirated car I think that this would hurt performance. Not to mention, they would pretty much have to run a lower compression ration with a 150 shot..... that or it seems it would be pretty easy to blow it up....



jason

So with the being said....the "quote" that Ed said in the thread is actually higher for a pure n/a motor?

There are A LOT of people running the AFR 165/eddy performer combo. I think what Mike(grn92lx) was trying to do is to open up some people's eyes to see that there is MORE on the table that you can get. Some people like David seem to be very strict with whats a "street daily driven" car where as someone else could give a little more to make more power. No one is saying its a all out drag car...but it may not be as "smooth" as a stock stang. Anyway, these motors can make awesome power and 300rwhp isnt the limit. It takes a good DESIGN and PLAN to make more power....and it takes a better design as a whole to actually get the car to USE the power down the track. (ex Paul)

I wish Ed would chime in here and shut everyone up!

Come on Ed...come lock it down

 

[Grn92LX]

So with the being said....the "quote" that Ed said in the thread is actually higher for a pure n/a motor?

There are A LOT of people running the AFR 165/eddy performer combo. I think what Mike(grn92lx) was trying to do is to open up some people's eyes to see that there is MORE on the table that you can get. Some people like David seem to be very strict with whats a "street daily driven" car where as someone else could give a little more to make more power. No one is saying its a all out drag car...but it may not be as "smooth" as a stock stang. Anyway, these motors can make awesome power and 300rwhp isnt the limit. It takes a good DESIGN and PLAN to make more power....and it takes a better design as a whole to actually get the car to USE the power down the track. (ex Paul)

I wish Ed would chime in here and shut everyone up!

Come on Ed...come lock it down

Thanks Nate, someone understands my intention

And Dave, thanks for the props, I do alright at my job when the work is steady.

Thats about all I gotta say

 

[mytight95]

i got what you meant....... I am not neccessarrily wanting to experiment though.....

I just want to piece one together.....be it custom pieces or pre-made.....lol, that will do what i want.......


jason

 

[nmcgrawj]

i got what you meant....... I am not neccessarrily wanting to experiment though.....

I just want to piece one together.....be it custom pieces or pre-made.....lol, that will do what i want.......


jason

No one is saying to experiment. Thats why we are saying to talk to guys like Ed C. and the like. They do all the "everyday combos" that we hear about all the time. But they also do a lot of combos that probably make a lot more power that we NEVER hear about.

 

[RIO5.0]

I miss Ed....To bad he gets the chit kicked out of him when he comes around.. I miss his wisdom and wit... Remember the old days when him and Thumper would hook-up...

Good info just the same... Good luck choosing Jason...

 

[5spd GT]

Nate - I was talking about (as mytight95 caught on) how the AFR 185's were better used since he did have the nitrous. Where as he probably would have suggested AFR 165's for a n/a combo.

Just out of curiosity...could anybody send me a link (or something) that shows a 400rwhp 302/306? Again, just curious.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Nate - I was talking about (as mytight95 caught on) how the AFR 185's were better used since he did have the nitrous. Where as he probably would have suggested AFR 165's for a n/a combo.

Just out of curiosity...could anybody send me a link (or something) that shows a 400rwhp 302/306? Again, just curious.

I doubt it man...thats why i wanted Ed to come settle it because we are rookies trying to guess what the Professional meant.

There is no way Ed meant the 185's would do less than 300rwhp. He is obviously talking about something else.

Like he told me...we all have different goals and just because the 165 does "most" right...it wont do them all. So if that guy decided to never run nitrous...i am willing to bet that he would still run faster than any other 165 combo. But i dont know for sure...just trying to get ya all wound up

 

[Grn92LX]

Just out of curiosity...could anybody send me a link (or something) that shows a 400rwhp 302/306? Again, just curious.

If that little thing called work didn't get in my way I would search around on corral for ya and find the link. A guy did it and I think it was an afr headed car but may have been a ported TW car. I can't remember. I do know it was in the 400rwhp range, street car 306 and ed curtis was in the thread posting as well. I believe it had an fti cam. Or you could go on anderson ford motorsports customer car section and theres a few n/a 306's in the 400 range. Those afm cam's are off the shelf cam's too. Its all about how wild you're willing to go and i'm ALL about that Some aren't. I think the quote "too each their own" suits us in this thread quite well

 

[tmoss]

Just out of curiosity...could anybody send me a link (or something) that shows a 400rwhp 302/306? Again, just curious.

Here is one............also demonstrates the difference in rpm power band of a Holley and Victor.....................

 

[EDC]

As I tell everyone that asks... COMBINATION dictates what to use...

Do you use a AFR 185 on a 3900# street car with 3.55 gears? Hell no!

How about a AFR 165 on a 2800# high RPM race car? Again, no!

Balance of parts coupled with the customer's goals...

Here's a few benchmarks that no one can argue.

Stock short block, you need to run the small intake valves. I prefer the AFR 165 but there are also good running cars with Edelbrock Performers and the Brodix 5.0 with the 1.94-1.60 valve combo.

Any time a "customer" uses an aftermarket piston, I will recommend the AFR 185 but again there are plenty of Edelbrock RPM or the Brodix 5.0 with the 2.02-1.60 valve package running well. The people obviously have more in mind since they've stepped up to a performance built shortblock.

Here's the rub...

No one combination will perform perfectly with another person's car. Why? Different car, driver and more than likely "totally different" goals for their project.

Another item... Why do some guys have great success with certain parts and others fail with the same pieces? Something called "ATD"... No not ADD, it's ATD...

ATTENTION TO DETAILS

If you can't design a package with this in mind, pay someone to do it for you...

Now... YES 400 RWHP is attainable in a street car. Quite a few people have done it. Using AFR heads, Canfield heads, Brodix and Twisted Wedge heads. All the examples I know came out of here too!

Street car being the key word... It has many definitions. You have to base your opinion on whether or not a 400 RWHP car if it's in your definition of what "you" call a "street car"...

Some guys want AC, CD player and power everything. Others don't car. It all depends on YOU...

As for the dyno sheet Tom.. Last I have on file, that particular cam is 270*-278*-110* and that is FAR from a street grind...

I've got to go back to work... Laters people...

Ed

 

[nmcgrawj]

As I tell everyone that asks... COMBINATION dictates what to use...

Do you use a AFR 185 on a 3900# street car with 3.55 gears? Hell no!

How about a AFR 165 on a 2800# high RPM race car? Again, no!

Balance of parts coupled with the customer's goals...

Here's a few benchmarks that no one can argue.

Stock short block, you need to run the small intake valves. I prefer the AFR 165 but there are also good running cars with Edelbrock Performers and the Brodix 5.0 with the 1.94-1.60 valve combo.

Any time a "customer" uses an aftermarket piston, I will recommend the AFR 185 but again there are plenty of Edelbrock RPM or the Brodix 5.0 with the 2.02-1.60 valve package running well. The people obviously have more in mind since they've stepped up to a performance built shortblock.

Here's the rub...

No one combination will perform perfectly with another person's car. Why? Different car, driver and more than likely "totally different" goals for their project.

Another item... Why do some guys have great success with certain parts and others fail with the same pieces? Something called "ATD"... No not ADD, it's ATD...

ATTENTION TO DETAILS

If you can't design a package with this in mind, pay someone to do it for you...

Now... YES 400 RWHP is attainable in a street car. Quite a few people have done it. Using AFR heads, Canfield heads, Brodix and Twisted Wedge heads. All the examples I know came out of here too!

Street car being the key word... It has many definitions. You have to base your opinion on whether or not a 400 RWHP car ifitsin your definition of what "you" call a "street car"...

Some guys want AC, CD player and power everything. Others don't car. It all depends on YOU...

As for the dyno sheet Tom.. Last I have on file, that particular cam is 270*-278*-110* and that is FAR from a street grind...

I've got to go back to work... Laters people...

Ed

HE SPEAKS!

 

[tmoss]

As for the dyno sheet Tom.. Last I have on file, that particular cam is 270*-278*-110* and that is FAR from a street grind...

Ed

Very true Ed, most guys can pick up on that just based on reading the parts list - but an example of a 400HP 306 was requested and that is one.

No getting around the fact that if you want to make that power in a 302-306 motor, your gonna have to use a higher rpm range.

 

[EDC]

Very true Ed, most guys can pick up on that just based on reading the parts list - but an example of a 400HP 306 was requested and that is one.

No getting around the fact that if you want to make that power in a 302-306 motor, your gonna have to use a higher rpm range.

One example of over 400 RWHP with a 306 and a "some what" streetable 236*-240* cam is in Joe Correia's car. And power was made at under 7000 RPM...

Recently another guy with a 308 did 417 RWHP with AFR 185. Holley intake and a 238*-244* camshaft...

Can be done without that big of a camshaft!

Ed

 

[tmoss]

Paul has been reporting the results of his dads FTI package 302 with worked SMII products - 350RWHP in what is probably a truely "streetable" car.

When I said higher rpm band I should have been more specific - I bet they are all made over the stock ~6,250 rpm rev limiter which must be disabled or chipped to get around and then the supporting cast of parts has to up to the task. You don't see many 302-308 engines run on the street regularly N/A that make close to 400HP.

If it can be done, the cam is critical to the combo and you pro cam designers have the best shot at it.

 

[mytight95]

Well, the project has been started the block is at the machine shop, they told me they are gonna call me and tell me if the crank is in spec when they get to it......... bearings looked rough.....and they are going to inspect the rods etc. as well.......


when i get it back i will buy pistons and research the best rings etc.....



jason

 

[mytight95]

As I tell everyone that asks... COMBINATION dictates what to use...

Do you use a AFR 185 on a 3900# street car with 3.55 gears? Hell no!

How about a AFR 165 on a 2800# high RPM race car? Again, no!

Balance of parts coupled with the customer's goals...

Here's a few benchmarks that no one can argue.

Stock short block, you need to run the small intake valves. I prefer the AFR 165 but there are also good running cars with Edelbrock Performers and the Brodix 5.0 with the 1.94-1.60 valve combo.

Any time a "customer" uses an aftermarket piston, I will recommend the AFR 185 but again there are plenty of Edelbrock RPM or the Brodix 5.0 with the 2.02-1.60 valve package running well. The people obviously have more in mind since they've stepped up to a performance built shortblock.

Here's the rub...

No one combination will perform perfectly with another person's car. Why? Different car, driver and more than likely "totally different" goals for their project.

Another item... Why do some guys have great success with certain parts and others fail with the same pieces? Something called "ATD"... No not ADD, it's ATD...

ATTENTION TO DETAILS

If you can't design a package with this in mind, pay someone to do it for you...

Now... YES 400 RWHP is attainable in a street car. Quite a few people have done it. Using AFR heads, Canfield heads, Brodix and Twisted Wedge heads. All the examples I know came out of here too!

Street car being the key word... It has many definitions. You have to base your opinion on whether or not a 400 RWHP car if it's in your definition of what "you" call a "street car"...

Some guys want AC, CD player and power everything. Others don't car. It all depends on YOU...

As for the dyno sheet Tom.. Last I have on file, that particular cam is 270*-278*-110* and that is FAR from a street grind...

I've got to go back to work... Laters people...

Ed

When i have more of the details of the rest of the engine mapped i will give you a call...... I want a cam from your shop. I am still undetermined on heads.... I have some friends with some cars that have afr's, one has 185's, he said he would let me drive it, kinda to feel the rpm range, it is a 308..........



jason

 

[GTJake]

I've changed my combo some since I put down 325/341, but here's how it stands now. And it definitely moves better than it did originally.

AFR 165cc (milled to 54cc)
FTI cam .550s 220s
Performer with ported lower (cut 1250s to match port)
Accufab 75mm Race TB (90mm opening, 75mm at the blade)
80mm PRO-M
ASP Pulleys
MAC long tubes, Pro chamber, catback

twEECer tune

Jake

 

[mytight95]

Jake, is this still on the stock bottom end.........

TMOSS ported your lower right?....

I also see you had your heads milled to 54, with the pistons i was looking at it would put my compression around 10.5:1 static, Can you make a guess as to what your compression ratio is?


Good to see/hear numbers of an actual combo, from the actual owner.........


thanks


jason

 

[Pokageek]

Great thread. Interesting observations on nitrous. Basically sounds like the poor man's horsepower solution at least in how it is applied most cases.

A guy takes his stock n/a 5.0 and slaps on the nitrous and gets quick cheap horsepower with the added factor that it could compromise or even destroy the engine. I haven't read every post but seems like if you are going to "build" it specifically for nitrous you might as well build it up n/a without it for same money and "full time" HP.

 

[GTJake]

Yep, stock short block. Compression is prolly around ~9.75 or so. Not exactly sure. Yes, Tom ported the lower.

Jake