347 "carb'd" stroker???? let the war begin...

sickazzstang · Apr 1, 2008

Ok so I just picked up an 89 gt for next to nothing I'm going to build the car for the track and the occasional weekend ride. This WILL NOT be a d/d. I have completely gutted the interior (red) tore the motor down to the bare block because supposedly it was a sportsman block...er...not so much just a stocker.. I think I'm going to go with a 347 stroker, with a main girdle and a windage tray new oil pump etc I'm going to re-use the block so the obvious freshen up will go along with that. 28oz sfi flywheel and 28oz fluid dampner...... That is all first.

I'm not rich by no means so I was thinking of going with AFR 185's 1.6 rockers, I have no idea what kind of cam? and I was thinking of going with....drumroll.......a victor juinor intake and a demon 750 carb.

I already have a dry nitrous set up but will change to a 200 shot wet kit.

Car has 4.10's stock tranny but i want to go with a tremec and a lakewood bell housing.

So with all that what do you guys think any feedback would be great...

I am also going to be doing the full engine bay smooth out along with new paint. This is obviously going to be like a year long project............

2000xp8 · Apr 1, 2008

Why the carb?
Contrary to popular belief the carb is not cheaper, and makes no more power.

Shamus O'toole · Apr 1, 2008

408rwhp with injection...........423 with carb......I beg to differ sir........./\/\

white 89 GT · Apr 1, 2008

You will be happy with the carb and it will have more peak power than fuel inj. without all the chip tuning $$$$ to get it to work.
I don`t see how anyone can say going to carb will cost what it takes to put a fuel inj. car together.

sickazzstang · Apr 1, 2008

not to mention im going with the smoothed out engine bay which means less wires to hide. AAAAnd i dont have to pay for...
mass air
injectors
throttle body
egr spacer
800 dollar upper and lower
and i can safely put a 200 shot on the car...

Rick James · Apr 1, 2008

Why not a carb?my carbd car runs great all year round without touching it and if i wanted to DD it i could.Not cheaper? my performer rpm and 650 double pumper are alot cheaper than an intake ,injecters t/body and maf.Ibought the car already carbd already ,granted if it was injected i would have left it that way.Carb technology is pretty good now,it has evolved .This isnt attacking anyone but carbs get a bad rap and now they can be turboed and as reliable as fuel injection,its just a different approach.Also i dont have to worry about emissions so that helps.

sickazzstang · Apr 1, 2008

Shamus O'toole said:
408rwhp with injection...........423 with carb......I beg to differ sir........./\/\

Hmmmm what you gots in yo ride??? hahahaha I'm still trying to figure out what cam to go with??? any suggestions? Definately want to be radical.

5.0Torx · Apr 1, 2008

Shamus O'toole said:
408rwhp with injection...........423 with carb......I beg to differ sir........./\/\

that is hardly what i would call scientific evidence. to begin to list off the volume of information missing in your post to prove your point (or 2000xp8's) would be a waste of time for me (or anyone). also, proving that 1 or 2 different carb setups made more power than your previous FI setup only proves your point for your motor. you'd have to test lots of different motors with lots of different FI and carb setups to prove the point one way or another with any kind of statistical strength.

if i were the OP i'd stick with the mass air fuel injection thats already on the car. But i like FI.

sickazzstang · Apr 1, 2008

5.0Torx said:
that is hardly what i would call scientific evidence. to begin to list off the volume of information missing in your post to prove your point (or 2000xp8's) would be a waste of time for me (or anyone). also, proving that 1 or 2 different carb setups made more power than your previous FI setup only proves your point for your motor. you'd have to test lots of different motors with lots of different FI and carb setups to prove the point one way or another with any kind of statistical strength.

if i were the OP i'd stick with the mass air fuel injection thats already on the car. But i like FI.

If I wanted to keep the car stock I would keep the fuel injection......but I know that you cant safely put more then a 150 shot on the FI motor or so I have been told. When I did the math between FI and Carb'd its about 800 dollars cheaper to go carbed? Just my .02

2000xp8 · Apr 1, 2008

Used foxbody EFI parts are a dime a dozen.
There is no computer tuning needed for 5.0 mustangs, some of these guys choose to do it, but it is far from necessary.
A good carb, fuel setup, and lower intake is not all that cheap.

Efi adjusts itself to all conditions, carb's do not.

You're worried about hiding wires, yet you gut the interior?

And something you may not be concerned about now, but could be in the future is the fact that a carb significantly devalues a car that was originally EFI.

Also, you can put pretty much as much as you want for nitrous on the car, the only limiting factor of power on a mustang is the block, nothing to do with fuel injection.
And $800 more is an excessive number, i bet for under a grand you could buy the EFI intake, injectors, maf, fuel pump and TB if you shop used correctly.
Even new for all the EFI intake parts it's only about $1400 to get quality parts, which would mean you are putting a carb on for a grand total of $600 according to your estimates.

I don't know where you got $800 above for an upper and lower, the most expensive one available is only like $550.

It's your car, do what you want, just don't be fooled into thinking a carb is truely that much cheaper.

sickazzstang · Apr 1, 2008

2000xp8 said:
Used foxbody EFI parts are a dime a dozen.
There is no computer tuning needed for 5.0 mustangs, some of these guys choose to do it, but it is far from necessary.
A good carb, fuel setup, and lower intake is not all that cheap.

Efi adjusts itself to all conditions, carb's do not.

You're worried about hiding wires, yet you gut the interior?

And something you may not be concerned about now, but could be in the future is the fact that a carb significantly devalues a car that was originally EFI.

Also, you can put pretty much as much as you want for nitrous on the car, the only limiting factor of power on a mustang is the block, nothing to do with fuel injection.
And $800 more is an excessive number, i bet for under a grand you could buy the EFI intake, injectors, maf, fuel pump and TB if you shop used correctly.

Im not dead set on carb'd just getting info.... I would rather buy new stuff as opposed to used because you never know what your getting from someone you dont know. I already have a 255 fuel pump in the car now. Interior along with headlights, tail lights , quarter windows trim window moldings blah blah blah is all out because the car is getting completely repainted with the hood,doors and hatch off the car. Also I dont care for the red interior so i Bought all grey interior, and what does any of this have to do with hiding the wires? Or the Carb'd vs Fi conversation that has been going on? Not fo nothing I do agree that Carb'd will probably devalue the car.

sickazzstang · Apr 1, 2008

I guess everyone is agreeing on the 347 part of the build huh?

2000xp8 · Apr 1, 2008

In your opening post, you said you gutted the interior and it won't be a daily driver, which led me to believe you are setting up more of a race car than a street car, i didn't feel you led us to believe you were putting the interior back in at all. My comment (which i now retract) about hiding the wires was to the effect of why bother hiding wires on a race car with no interior.

The 347 and the heads are a good idea. Me personally i'd use Cnc'ed wedges, but that's my preference.

I calculated out what my intake, TB, spacer, injectors and meter cost me.
$325 for my rpm intake (like new)
$255 for my accufab TB and space (new)
$100 for used 30's
$225 for my 80mm meter (new, but prices were cheaper a couple years back)

If you can do a good carb cheaper than that, good luck, but i checked summit pricing and on named brand parts, just the lower and the carb exceed my numbers.

The only pieces of the EfI i would be concerned about having new is the Meter, the rest are really non perishable items.

Fast63 · Apr 1, 2008

A carbed setup is definitely cheaper than fuel injection if you are going all out and need to upgrade all your fuel injection parts. If you're doing a simple HCI swap, it's probably cheaper to do fuel injection if you're just changing the intake, injectors, TB and MAF

5spd GT · Apr 1, 2008

Since you are on a budget, I would stick with AFR 185cc heads. The 185cc TW's run about $300 more, without good springs. The AFR heads are in the same boat, just cheaper and very similar power to be had.

347 is fine, but ditch the added nitrous with a stock block, with a windage tray or not.

I am personally not a carb fan, and not one test of peak power can give you the end all info. The power of the tuner/tunee will bring out the best in both carb or EFI.

For the most part, I do agree with 2000xp8.

Good Luck with it!

347HO · Apr 1, 2008

Pro Systems 750HP 700.00
Modified Parker FW 200.00
Curved MSD distributor 250.00
Tuning/Computer 000.00 I tune my own carburetor and distributor
All on a "street" 347ci sbf 450rwhp (detuned)
With a "race" camshaft it will make much, much more power with no other mods... but the block won't like it.

How much is your FI setup putting down 2000xp8?

5Speed GT... you know where I'm coming from and you know Jay is my camshaft designer and Tech Advisor, so you know I'm not bull****ing you.
Dollar for dollar the carb will get you to point "B" quicker than FI.

I am NOT saying carbed will make more power... that would be ignorant.

white 89 GT · Apr 2, 2008

There was a discussion on speed talk http://speedtalk.com/ about carb vs inj.
Speed talk has many shop owners and big time engine builders that post along with some that think they know something.
Go back a few pages on the racers general engine tech forum and you will find the debate on carb vs inj.
A carb has an advantage because its working off engine demand, fuel inj. is working off of a senser (02) that is sensing what the last combustion cycle was and not what the next cycle needs. So i like to think the inj. is a little behind the curve when talking carbs vs inj.

347HO · Apr 2, 2008

white 89 GT said:
There was a discussion on speed talk http://speedtalk.com/ about carb vs inj.
Speed talk has many shop owners and big time engine builders that post along with some that think they know something.
Go back a few pages on the racers general engine tech forum and you will find the debate on carb vs inj.
A carb has an advantage because its working off engine demand, fuel inj. is working off of a senser (02) that is sensing what the last combustion cycle was and not what the next cycle needs. So i like to think the inj. is a little behind the curve when talking carbs vs inj.

There are Mechanical Fuel Injection units which don't require the I/O computer logic but soley on ambient air temp, density, and throttle position. If I were to Drag Race with an FI unit... it would be very similar to this if not exactly.
I'm used to the ol' Hilborn FI units but there are more out there.
I would not use this unit on the street, and the cost is more than the average person is willing to let go.

99% of the people on "speed talk" are smarter than I... so take my opinion for what it's worth.

sickazzstang · Apr 2, 2008

and the survey says...... stay FI? I can go either way it wont be for a while anyways just wanted some help. I appreciate all the info but I think Ill just stay FI. what do you guys think the best combo as far as upper end is? right now im going to go with the 347 with a girdle balanced to 28oz with afr 185's. What cam and intake should I go with to make the most power??? I will o ring it and stay on the bottle with 150 shot.

5spd GT · Apr 2, 2008

We can't compare different FI or Carb combinations because the combinations vary, dynos vary, goals vary, budgets vary, conditions vary, accessories vary, etc.

One 347 might make more power than another 347, but both may be 100% happy with what they got based on the factors above.

Even EFI to EFI is not a fair comparison because of the variances, and the same with carb to carb.

I like EFI for many of the reasons 2000xp8 does. I am not talking about power, but the adaptibility, and the street friendliness of it.

I have a different opinion than many...

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