347 VS. 331

Loved the guy. Really helped me when I was new to the game. I've had 2 of his cams. I reached out to him for a 3rd w/ addl valvetrain components... several months passed. Reached back out again; was directed to fill out the form. Did so, and asked if he had everything he needed, which he affirmed. Months went by again; so, I reached out a 3rd time and he acted like he didn't know anything about my order. So, my Ed days are over. If you can get his attention & support, I think he's the best in the biz. If not, he's more towards the opposite.
well that confirms that I will likely have no luck as well lol. I feel comfortable either going with Shaun in Tx, Prestige Motorsports in NC, and ofcourse Woody of Fordstrokers and Zach of ZSR but the latter two I know will be a long long long wait lol.
 
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I will say that I just don't think there are very many people in this world that grasp cam shafts so its hard to delegate those things to without risking a fall off in quality / performance. Flip side is all the accounts of poor communication which also hurts business. I am lucky in that that guy that machines and builds my motors knows cams very well and can talk with Ed on a whole other level of nerd speak.

If you are comfortable with Shaun and close to the shop then move that direction. My engine guy is 1.5 hours from my house so when the 331 was getting freshened up a couple years ago I made a few trips just to learn. You seem to have a good grasp on your goals and is something that 95% of the people that want a new motor for their street car are lost on.
 
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I will say that I just don't think there are very many people in this world that grasp cam shafts so its hard to delegate those things to without risking a fall off in quality / performance. Flip side is all the accounts of poor communication which also hurts business. I am lucky in that that guy that machines and builds my motors knows cams very well and can talk with Ed on a whole other level of nerd speak.

If you are comfortable with Shaun and close to the shop then move that direction. My engine guy is 1.5 hours from my house so when the 331 was getting freshened up a couple years ago I made a few trips just to learn. You seem to have a good grasp on your goals and is something that 95% of the people that want a new motor for their street car are lost on.
Man I tell you what you are spot on and today and probably especially after covid and getting people to work, it seems it's a challenge for folks to find good help. If you find that good help what would be their level of dedication and can you put your name behind their work? I guess you have to give them a chance but I just think it's an uphill battle these days to find good consistent help in anything that you do or want to do.

Great that you have a guy like that then and not too far away. I have one local guy that I've heard of that I am thinking about letting do the build but I have to go and meet him and talk to him, pick his brain and also get some more info on him from a few people that i want to ask about him. Asf far as Shaun in Tx he is far away as I'm in South Carolina but you talk about nerd speak, man when we talk a lot of that :poo: is going over my head though I know the gist of what he is trying to relay to me lol. I've been curious about his ideas for building as the way he talks about the little details and length of rods, valves, valve seats, air speed, rpm as it relates to torque, relations of components to components, ect man it's some nerdy mad scientist :poo: lol. So waiting on him to get me a spec/build sheet for around approximately what it will cost me round about.

I have the 94 Cobra engine with around 275k miles on it and I'll have the 302 block out of the 95 this build is going into but not sure how much it'll cost to send a block to him. He will look for a block and test/check it to make sure it's good so he's not sure right now on how much it'll cost for the stock block. That's the only cause to pause cause I know a stock block shouldn't be all that much so we'll see. Just did a quick look and I guess it depends on if you get a bare block or one that has to be disassembled it can cost between $500 to $1000 just to get the block in hand??? I don't want to put too much into just getting the block so I'll have to weigh all of that in totality because too much into that stock block overall might mean just spending a little more depending on how much and getting an aftermarkent one. What's your thoughts on the stock block situation and being so far from Tx in that regard?

And thanks and yes man I've been researching and soaking in all you guys have been relaying as well and so I want to make sure this time around I properly match components and get this thing right ......:D
 
Stock 5.0 blocks are not the $100 deal they used to be. I will be very honest with you about my 331 build. I am kicking myself in the ass every day for not biting the bullet and just getting a Dart block. The motor wants to spin way past the 6200 rpm shift point but that is suicide with a stock block. So I am giving up about 1000 rpm to keep it from coming apart in that aspect and on the engine dyno it built just shy of 470 fwhp which is also pushing the stock block. My builder said with a good block and solid roller it would be a game changer. I have been emailing Blueprint engines to see if they would sell one of their four bolt main blocks that they say will hold 700 hp all day long but they are not currently just selling the block. He has offered to sell me one of his 347's but it doesn't make the power that my 331 does and that's not a viable solution anyhow. I'm just ranting now but take a hard look at the Dart block you want to spin the rpms and or make stock block killing power.

I may end up building another short block with a Dart block and the existing rotating assembly but that's a year or two out as I have a few other projects on the car to get finished.

One other thing to consider is getting the motor from Texas to SC as that will also cost some money. There are a lot of reputable builders closer to you but it is your build.
 
Stock 5.0 blocks are not the $100 deal they used to be. I will be very honest with you about my 331 build. I am kicking myself in the ass every day for not biting the bullet and just getting a Dart block. The motor wants to spin way past the 6200 rpm shift point but that is suicide with a stock block. So I am giving up about 1000 rpm to keep it from coming apart in that aspect and on the engine dyno it built just shy of 470 fwhp which is also pushing the stock block. My builder said with a good block and solid roller it would be a game changer. I have been emailing Blueprint engines to see if they would sell one of their four bolt main blocks that they say will hold 700 hp all day long but they are not currently just selling the block. He has offered to sell me one of his 347's but it doesn't make the power that my 331 does and that's not a viable solution anyhow. I'm just ranting now but take a hard look at the Dart block you want to spin the rpms and or make stock block killing power.

I may end up building another short block with a Dart block and the existing rotating assembly but that's a year or two out as I have a few other projects on the car to get finished.

One other thing to consider is getting the motor from Texas to SC as that will also cost some money. There are a lot of reputable builders closer to you but it is your build.
wow that's good to know straight from the horses mouth in same relations of what I want to do. Yeah he said with the right setup that thing will want to spin right on up to 7000 or so. Might be some other builders in SC but there in lies the trustworthiness of the whole process as not just the build but the machine work, ect as it will likely leave the builder to have some of that done.

I do know a guy about 3-4 hours from me that has a new Ford Boss 302 block with a 331 kit that was bought with pistons to do a turbo build. All new components and he said for what I want to do I'll have to get different pistons and sell the ones from the kit. He wants $3700 for the block and the kit and I need to check and see how much that stuff costs new as to how much off he's knocking off to sell. I just sent him a text I'll see what he says and factor that in as well to ship the block to TX. So let me get this right, that block won't need machining to do a 331 right?

I'll just need to do a reference table of cost one way vs the others and ponder over that as the best way to go about it all block wise.
 
If the bottom of the cylinder walls go down far enough they may need to be notched to clear the rod caps. Some stock blocks need it and some do not on a 331 but mine did. I have not seen a stock block 347 yet that did not need the notches.

With regards to machining a block. Regardless of who made it a good machinist will most likely line hone and deck the block. Boring will depend on the cylinders themselves but a new block will most likely be good to go with a hone and standard bore pistons. Not sure on the aftermarket blocks as they may come smaller than standard bore which would require punching them out and honing.

Block will most likely need the cam bearings pressed in, freeze plugs installed, and the oil galley plugs installed but all that happens after machine work.
 
If the bottom of the cylinder walls go down far enough they may need to be notched to clear the rod caps. Some stock blocks need it and some do not on a 331 but mine did. I have not seen a stock block 347 yet that did not need the notches.

With regards to machining a block. Regardless of who made it a good machinist will most likely line hone and deck the block. Boring will depend on the cylinders themselves but a new block will most likely be good to go with a hone and standard bore pistons. Not sure on the aftermarket blocks as they may come smaller than standard bore which would require punching them out and honing.

Block will most likely need the cam bearings pressed in, freeze plugs installed, and the oil galley plugs installed but all that happens after machine work.
oh gotcha. Just texted the guy about his block and asked those questions
 
He may not know. It literally took my guy an additional 10 minutes to clearance for it so not a big adder.
I said hey Will that block need to be bored and honed for a 331 and he said yes it's a new block. Which I knew the block was new but I'm not up on all of the stroking and boring, etc
 
I keep my eye on the market all the time, and I agree that it's definitely not like it used to be. Lotta folks out there are wanting $2-3k for a running stock-ish 5.0 motor. At those prices I'm afraid of getting ripped off. In the old days, you could pick up a $500 engine to swap your stuff on, and if they lied it was just a bad day. Hell, I had a friend, @Ford Moore swap my old turbo kit and X-heads onto a $50 junkyard 302, smooth out a damaged piston, and rock on with ~450rwhp not really caring if he blew it up. Honestly, that's the way to do it. No waiting months on a build, having to navigate the whole aftermarket catalog, and then worrying that every little tick or noise is some expensive engine killing catastrophe. At the prices a 'new' stock build is going for, it really does put you in a spot where jumping up to holding out to find an aftermarket block (Dart, Boss, World, R302, A4) is pretty reasonable.

You can still get stockers on the market at reasonable prices, though. Here's one that's frankly hard to believe:

1690034769541.png


If it comes with everything in the pic & it all works, $800's a smokin' deal. Getting to 500 rwhp in a fox is about the most you'll be able to do on a budget. I think one of the best bang for the buck combos out there is to slap on any aftermarket cylinder head you can get your hands on with the cheapest quality explorer intake you can find to get to what would be a 230-250 rwhp NA build, then buy a 340 lph pump, 42 lbs injetors, & a quarterhorse or Tweecer, and then slap a turbo kit with an intercooler on there and run up to 15 psi on 93 octane to max out the stock block. The beauty of it is that you don't have to worry about internals/displacement/cam etc... You won't get nervous about problems or running it hard. You should be able to replace all the parts for cheap and run that car deep into the 10s on that kind of power.

You can find rebuilt ones that'll cost you more, but I'd worry about how they were put together, or whether they were even actually rebuilt. Example:
1690034722372.png
 
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I keep my eye on the market all the time, and I agree that it's definitely not like it used to be. Lotta folks out there are wanting $2-3k for a running stock-ish 5.0 motor. At those prices I'm afraid of getting ripped off. In the old days, you could pick up a $500 engine to swap your stuff on, and if they lied it was just a bad day. Hell, I had a friend, @Ford Moore swap my old turbo kit and X-heads onto a $50 junkyard 302, smooth out a damaged piston, and rock on with ~450rwhp not really caring if he blew it up. Honestly, that's the way to do it. No waiting months on a build, having to navigate the whole aftermarket catalog, and then worrying that every little tick or noise is some expensive engine killing catastrophe. At the prices a 'new' stock build is going for, it really does put you in a spot where jumping up to holding out to find an aftermarket block (Dart, Boss, World, R302, A4) is pretty reasonable.

You can still get stockers on the market at reasonable prices, though. Here's one that's frankly hard to believe:

1690034769541.png


If it comes with everything in the pic & it all works, $800's a smokin' deal. Getting to 500 rwhp in a fox is about the most you'll be able to do on a budget. I think one of the best bang for the buck combos out there is to slap on any aftermarket cylinder head you can get your hands on with the cheapest quality explorer intake you can find to get to what would be a 230-250 rwhp NA build, then buy a 340 lph pump, 42 lbs injetors, & a quarterhorse or Tweecer, and then slap a turbo kit with an intercooler on there and run up to 15 psi on 93 octane to max out the stock block. The beauty of it is that you don't have to worry about internals/displacement/cam etc... You won't get nervous about problems or running it hard. You should be able to replace all the parts for cheap and run that car deep into the 10s on that kind of power.

You can find rebuilt ones that'll cost you more, but I'd worry about how they were put together, or whether they were even actually rebuilt. Example:
1690034722372.png
wow thanks for the insight. I've never looked for stock block 302's or 351's other than just a quick look per se on marketplace so I wouldn't have known the change from what they really used to go for to now. I guess everything has gotten crazy nowadays and so I'll really have to consider things from every option and make the best overall decision that ultimately makes the most sense. I know whatever i build will be there for quite awhile as I don't plan on making any changes but also have to factor in if I sell the car or engine later and resale value, ect. I do have the 94 cobra engine and will have the engine out of the 95 GT but I really want Shaun in Tx to do my build and there in lies shipping my block to him, either block and he'll check it to make sure they're fine to use.

I know the one out of the GT I'm assuming they shot it because the nitrous line is still on there. I bought that car in 2016 and the 94 I bought in 2017. The cobra was all stock except flowmasters and it did have i forgot which plug in chip and cold air kit but everything still worked fine on the car. Debating exactly what I want to do with it and might just hold on to it and if I don't do anything with it I'm sure it'll bring good demand.

Did a little research yesterday on shipping a block and it seems a block minus the heads weighs around 135 lbs and to ship to TX one carrier said $215. Not sure if that's just the block or pistons and all in still at that weight. I've taken heads off before but that's the furthest I've gone. If I was to send a block I guess it'll be better to disassemble as much as possible? Another thing is I could sell the 95's engine as well so I might just hold on to it and that's another potential sale.