There is a reason why all the big race heads (svo/yates/chi) are all cleveland based, the basic canted valve design is just superior to an inline head, but just uber expensive and somewhat hard to find (and you can still build an inline pretty damn fast too). The tfs stuff may finally help solve that problem, but I haven't seen any good reviews/buildups with them yet.Now, companies like Trick Flow have started to make aftermarket C heads... And those are badass.
There is a reason why all the big race heads (svo/yates/chi) are all cleveland based, the basic canted valve design is just superior to an inline head, but just uber expensive and somewhat hard to find (and you can still build an inline pretty damn fast too). The tfs stuff may finally help solve that problem, but I haven't seen any good reviews/buildups with them yet.
If you can get Cleveland heads for $50-$75 a pair, it could be worth it. The last Ebay auction I saw, the heads started at $250 or so. That makes it much less attractive.The ONE reason I can think of for building a clevor....
Cool factor.
Which, really, a LOT if the stuff we do to our cars is for "cool factor".
But, anyway, its an option if someone didn't want/have the cash for aftermarket heads.
If you can get Cleveland heads for $50-$75 a pair, it could be worth it. The last Ebay auction I saw, the heads started at $250 or so. That makes it much less attractive.
Do check out http://www.pricemotorsport.com/ if you have any interest at all in Cleveland engines. They have adapter plates to mate an EFI intake manifold to Cleveland heads or Cleveland heads and block.
The heads will need to have hardened valve seats installed to be used with unleaded fuel. That adds $275-$400 to the cost. Then you need adapters to mate your EFI manifold to the Cleveland heads - see http://www.pricemotorsport.com/ for the adapters. The 2V adapters are $255, the 4v adapters are $267. If you use the 4V heads, you need a set of port stuffers to reduce the port volume in increase the flow velocity - that adds $112 plus maybe $150 worth of machine work to install the stuffers. Then you need to modify the heads and block to make the water passages line up. New push rods and gaskets are needed too.
Totals: ( I’m sure that I have missed some things)
2 V Heads
$75 heads
$350 machine work
$225 manifold adapters
$650
If you paid $350 for the heads, that works out to $1000, and a good set of used Trick Flows or AFRs could be had for that price
4V heads
$75 heads
$350 machine work valve seats
$267 manifold adapters
$112 port stuffers
$150 port stuffer machine work
$924
If you paid $350 for the heads, that works out to $1274, which is close to the price range for a new set of AFR's
If you have to change the pistons, this isn't a bargain. If you can run the 2V heads and stock pistons (don't know if this is possible), it could be a cheap upgrade.
Flow numbers don't tell the whole story. Cleveland heads are a better design. Look at yates stuff. Most of the windsor stuff, with the exception of high ports, begin to stall after .600 lift and are useless without a ton of port work. They work fine on your run of the mill street 331 or 347 but when you get into bigger camshafts the heads will really bottleneck things. Like others said, the canted valves are the key. If windsor heads were that great NASCAR would have been building windsor based motors instead of C3 and D3 stuff.
My father-n-laws 4V heads, which are going on his 408 Clevor, flow 361/270 at .700. They are extensively modified, but he picked them up bare from the machine shop for $500.
Joe
there is no question that the cleveland heads can flow a massive amount of air, the 4V heads especially, in fact ford was going to put those heads on the 400 until the government started tightening the emission laws. but remember that the 4V head was designed for high rpm flow, and they just dont work that well at low speeds, unless you reduce the size of the ports.
and if you are building a high rpm race engine, then i would say go with the yates head as it is in fact the best head for that kind of racing. but for a street engine, or for engines that are not going to be turning 9500rpm for four hours, the windsor heads are the better way to go.
Thats not true. With the right camshaft and valvetrain you can build a very streetable yates combination that makes peak power right around 7500 rpms.
Haven't seen any higher hp build ups with the TFS stuff yet? I've been able to make 1327 rwhp with the 225 R head and that's with the factory cnc ports untouched. Changes over this winter should yield results in the 1500 rwhp range.There is a reason why all the big race heads (svo/yates/chi) are all cleveland based, the basic canted valve design is just superior to an inline head, but just uber expensive and somewhat hard to find (and you can still build an inline pretty damn fast too). The tfs stuff may finally help solve that problem, but I haven't seen any good reviews/buildups with them yet.
based on the MPH and weight we are roughly in the same HP range as your expectingHaven't seen any higher hp build ups with the TFS stuff yet? I've been able to make 1327 rwhp with the 225 R head and that's with the factory cnc ports untouched. Changes over this winter should yield results in the 1500 rwhp range.
The r head is still a wedge (windsor) head, tfs came out with cleveland heads a couple years ago (powerports). Theyre not nearly as well documented as the wedge stuff yetHaven't seen any higher hp build ups with the TFS stuff yet? I've been able to make 1327 rwhp with the 225 R head and that's with the factory cnc ports untouched. Changes over this winter should yield results in the 1500 rwhp range.
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