351 swap, engine and boost questions

[viridionplague]

ok, so im going to be doing a 351 swap, i also plan on boosting it at some point to bring it to around 600 hp to the wheels questions are as follows

suggestions on going with a 351 or a stroker

ive heard that the 351 is better for boosted applications and that the 408 would be better for N/A combo's

also im still kind of undecided as to supercharger or turbo, ive been leaning twords the turbo setup but does anyone know where i can get a turbo setup for the 351 to fit in the 94?

also wondering what kind of power the 351 stock internals can handle

i found a guy on ebay selling mostly rebuilt engines, 351W with around 400hp at the crank for 3500 shipped, feedback is 100% with just under 600 transactions http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...ryZ33615QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


reason im looking at that engine is because its cheap and i think it would be a good starting point to get the kinks worked out of the swap as well as offering 400 hp compaired to the 240 my 5.0 is rated at

i think the extra 160 hp should be a nice boost for a while,

feel free to leave opinions they are greatly appreciated

 

[ProKiller]

speaking from experience, if you want a 408 don't get that 351. its spending your money twice.

the supporting hardware determines whether or not its boost worthy. if you get good internals to handle the boost and a blower cam of course it will like boost. more cubes is just more cubes. it comes down to where to draw the line. with a 408 your going to need more fuel and stiffer supporting hardware like tranny and rear becuase it will make more power.

turbos are more efficient but harder to fit and maintain.

what's your budget?

 

[viridionplague]

well im tryin to do it as cheap as possable, but im more than happy to spend money where it is needed like foged internals and what not

id love to keep the swap to around 3000 reusing what i can from my 5.0 like heads and such, but i dont think thats gonna happen

only thing the budget is affecting is doing this now or over next winter

kind of have it figured like this

labor - 1000
stock 351 - 500?
misc swap parts - 1000
stroker kit - 1700
500 misc

the stroker kit definatly puts it to around 4500,

thats why im wondering what the stock 351 internals can handle

 

[Black Stampede]

Turbo 351

 

[BlackVert]

hyper pistons with forged rods ... huh?

also, what heads does it come with?

 

[S351Saleen77]

This ebay engine is just a stock crank, stock rods with rod bolts, and hyper pistons. You need a Forged crank, aftermarket rods, Forged pistons if you want to make big power and have it last.

Also the machine work is critical, bad machining is very costly in the long run.

Weren't you the guy who wanted to do a KB, then you said that a Twin turbo was what you were going to do?? TT= WIN I think is how you put it? If your going to Twin Turbo you better be ready with lots of cash to build a nice motor.

If you want big power you will be sorry using stock internals..........

 

[viridionplague]

yes i said TT = the win

just that i dont see to many turbo setups for 351 swaps and i dont wanna spend double to price to get one fabricated

however i seen a diffrent post a turbo kit made for a 5.8 mustang for around 3500

what would be better for a turbo setup 351???

im guessing you can get more rpm out of the 351 than the 408

im also guessing forged internals for the 351 can be had cheaper than the 408

or is there a better stroker option for such endevors?

 

[BlackVert]

do you know what you want for the car? do you have a plan?

i learned the hard way that you waste alot of money and time if you don't have a clear plan before delving into a huge porject like this.

is it a daily driver, or a race car?
just how reliable do you want it to be?
and how much time and effort are you willing to put into it?
and how much money do you have to put into this?

while it is not impossible to twin turbo a 351 in a sn95, not many people have done it, and you will surely have to fabricate a bunch of stuff on your own to make it happen

and if you are successful TTing it, it will make so much power that you will either break any non-forged parts in the short block, or the block, or the tranny, or the diff

i say, "first things first". just get a jy 351 and get that in the car. that is a big enough job in itself. especially since you have a limited budget. i bet that will keep you busy for a while and when you are done, you will probably be happy enough with the increased torque/power that it will buy you time for the next step.

then start saving for the rebuild of the short block. that will give you time to get a better idea of what you are getting yourself into.

there's $.02 for ya

 

[viridionplague]

well the plan is like this, i am going to do all forged internals

going to do a viper t-56 swap rated at 650 torque with a decent clutch to go with
4500 in parts

this car will be daily drivin , reliability would be nice,

i was thinking the same thing about doing a low cost swap then build up later

i dont mind fabricating piping and stuff its the headers that give me the most concern as nobody within 2 hours can fab them

i realy wanna do the twin turbo but if its gonna need that much fabrications i might end up doing a 302 or going with a supercharger, thats why i moved off the "TT = the win"

im already running 03 cobra diff, and 31 splines with 3:73 gears so that should be set

all in all im expecting ending costs to be around12 - 15,000

just trying to get all the info i can, as well as seeing the options i have to make a good plan

 

[frcefedlx]

I am not real sure on this but I believe if you do the 351 or 408 you will need to figure in a new hood because of the engine being taller and everything clearing. I could be wrong on this but the 95 Cobra R had a different hood for this reason.

 

[S351Saleen77]

Black Vert I like your .02 worth

Heres mine because I see you kinda trying to figure out what you want.

There is no sub for cubic inches, I would NEVER do a 351 when you could do a stroker for almost the same. They don't cost that much more than getting all the same brand parts for a 351. This will give you ALOT more bottom end. Then If you put on a Centri SC it will make your goal of 600rwhp no problem, and not cost alot of money.... No special headers, tubing etc etc. Easy bolt on no hassle. 600rwhp for a S/C stroker is no problem. I ran into some late model Camaro Firebird guys that had Prochargers on the 350 cube engines. They made nowhere near the low end and top end I made. They couldn't belive the power I was making.

The car will have more torque than you will be able to hook up down low anyway!! Then it will come on hard all the way to redline. See if you can find anyone local that has this setup and go for a ride.....you will be a beliver

 

[S351Saleen77]

I am not real sure on this but I believe if you do the 351 or 408 you will need to figure in a new hood because of the engine being taller and everything clearing. I could be wrong on this but the 95 Cobra R had a different hood for this reason.

I just got another S351 and it has the stock hood. Fits no problem. Not sure if Saleen used different motor mounts though??

 

[viridionplague]

yea thats what im thinking now is doing the 408 with a centri supercharger,

i wanted to do the TT but it seems like more of a hastle that its going to be worth

although i dont like the fact that you have to plan the fuel system beyond what your making at the wheels for sure

what size injectors would be needed for 600 ponies at the wheels 60's ??

also i know its been asked a million times but with the 351 block would a main support system be good enough or should i look into getting some kind of aftermarket block?

the more i think about it now the better the 408 sounds, not to mention the supercharger is down the line but the 408 would be a huge upgrade

 

[viridionplague]

what would the centrifugal S/C of choice be to run 650 hp?

 

[BlackVert]

what would the centrifugal S/C of choice be to run 650 hp?

Mr. S351Saleen77 has a T-Trim ... probably a pretty good choice ...

 

[TurboSnake95]

well im tryin to do it as cheap as possable,

reliable everyday driving 600+ rwhp is by no way cheap. Plan on spending more than what your car is worth in Kelley blue book getting to this level. It's not just drop an engine and power adder in and go. There are electronics, fuel, suspension, axles, and all the other nickle and dime stuff you will need, and there is always alot of nickle and dime stuff that will piss you off to no end, during your build.

Just be prepared for this to take time and money. In the end its a blast Nothing like pushing 700+ rwhp thru a C4 on the street/track

-Will

 

[viridionplague]

ah, i never expected 600 hp to be cheap,

although the vortech is a nice unit i think i like the procharger setup better with the S/C being where the batter was, and it allows for an easy to install intercooler

i also see there setups come with "100% fuel system" dont know what that means but for a price tag of around 4600 bucks it better be 100% lol

luckily ive done a good bit of suspension (more to go) the rear end is done as well

this summer im getting some 10.5 in rims out back and i think 9 inch in front, i wanna run 315 out back and the biggest i can in the front

im going to do the viper t-56 swap first to play it safe in that respect

then the 408 replacing most of the accessories as i go

the last thing to go onto the car will be the S/C

im hoping to get a full griggs suspension up front, seems a good way to go dont know about the rear end right now, seems pretty stout as is maybe add a panhard to it

so thanks alot guys for helping me decide, just wish i had the money now

*sigh*

 

[S351Saleen77]

reliable everyday driving 600+ rwhp is by no way cheap. Plan on spending more than what your car is worth in Kelley blue book getting to this level. It's not just drop an engine and power adder in and go. There are electronics, fuel, suspension, axles, and all the other nickle and dime stuff you will need, and there is always alot of nickle and dime stuff that will piss you off to no end, during your build.

Just be prepared for this to take time and money. In the end its a blast Nothing like pushing 700+ rwhp thru a C4 on the street/track

-Will

Well said!! We need to hook up this next summer, I really want to see your car!!

ah, i never expected 600 hp to be cheap,

although the vortech is a nice unit i think i like the procharger setup better with the S/C being where the batter was, and it allows for an easy to install intercooler

i also see there setups come with "100% fuel system" dont know what that means but for a price tag of around 4600 bucks it better be 100% lol

luckily ive done a good bit of suspension (more to go) the rear end is done as well

this summer im getting some 10.5 in rims out back and i think 9 inch in front, i wanna run 315 out back and the biggest i can in the front

im going to do the viper t-56 swap first to play it safe in that respect

then the 408 replacing most of the accessories as i go

the last thing to go onto the car will be the S/C

im hoping to get a full griggs suspension up front, seems a good way to go dont know about the rear end right now, seems pretty stout as is maybe add a panhard to it

so thanks alot guys for helping me decide, just wish i had the money now

*sigh*

I like Prochargers don't get me wrong, and have owned one on a Foxbody. But....on the 94-95 kits they have the big air cleaner right above the exhaust sucking hot air and they use the existing serpentine width belt, You just get a long one. I do know a guy who had a totally seperate 8 or 10 rib belt which would cost more $$$ meaning different lower pulley and the brackets etc etc.
They are not the most eye catching systems for the 94-95's. I do like Prochargers so those of you with this kit I'm not bashing it. I really wish it was like the Foxbody kits which I love.

Also the fuel system is not complete. They just give you a booster pump, the S/C kit is for a 302 not a 408. You will need a big fuel system and bigger than 60lb inj. I have 75's and need to go bigger. You need to throw away all the stock system and start from scratch. New lines, fuel rails, a big pump, etc,etc.... Aeromotive makes a nice system. Can you say...$$$$.

You need to supply enough fuel for 600 + to be safe say a 20% loss thats another 120hp so the motor is really making 720hp....plus it takes say 75hp or so to run the blower so you really need a system for 800hp!! If the fuel system is too small and can't keep up under boost....say Bye Bye to your new 408.
I think I said all this before in another post to you.

 

[Pokageek]

reliable everyday driving 600+ rwhp is by no way cheap. Plan on spending more than what your car is worth in Kelley blue book getting to this level. It's not just drop an engine and power adder in and go. There are electronics, fuel, suspension, axles, and all the other nickle and dime stuff you will need, and there is always alot of nickle and dime stuff that will piss you off to no end, during your build.

Just be prepared for this to take time and money. In the end its a blast Nothing like pushing 700+ rwhp thru a C4 on the street/track

-Will

:Word: I am having all kinds of little "stuff" I need to get it right. Firts, getting out the rattles and squeaks, pulleys out of alignment, suspension not anywhere near up to par and needs welding AND expensive upgrades, new tires that will bite, parts just up and fail in the changeover, rad aint up to snuff need larger one...must fab the fan b/c it doesn't fit right,..engine hits hood $500 new hood and then paint..need to downgrade the gears for a street car or spins like hell..blah..blah..blah.. not trying to discourage but there's a lot to it.

 

[TurboSnake95]

Also when you start this build, I hope you have another car for a daily driver ^^ it will be a life saver.

Well said!! We need to hook up this next summer, I really want to see your car!!

I would like to see my car too

I'm currently in Korea for a few month's but will be back in middle of June. When I get back I'll be upgrading my 72lb injectors up to 160lb'ers and also stepping up my Turbo from a T-76 Q-trim to a PT88, and also some other misc. things. Right now I'm pushing 700rwhp thru the C-4 as stated above, but am looking for 950-1000 with the PT88, shouldn't be a problem, might have to tighten the PTC torque converter up though.

Were at in WA are you? close to I-5 corridor?

- Will