351 time?? need some advice guys..

[jetuomi]

My 302 is totally done now (tweeced and everything) and I'm gonna take it to the track to fix that disgraceful 13.7@104.. but I'm seeing blue smoke in top end 3rd and 4th gears, and I know I'm low on compression..

So this winter, I could get a sportsman 302 block and build up a nice 306 long-rod / 331 stroker, OR, I could pickup a 351 block and build up a nice 351 starting with all the parts I have currently on my 302.. (minus the intake right?)

So, basically, can a 351 drop in? (I think I'd need a new oil pan, distributor, intake, balancer / flywheel, which I need new 302 parts of anyways this winter) but would the heads/cam/exhaust/t-body/MAF be okay? I know stock 351's that put out 215 hp or so were so choked up that my 302 parts would probably be sufficient for now.. the heads flow 250/195 and avg airflow is just around the same as the trickflow TW 2.02 heads.. I wonder if that is enough for now.?

Could the cam, lifters, etc, just fit in and that's it? Cause a 351 bottom-end isn't that much more than a 302 bottom end...

I'm very curious (and serious) about doing this combo so tell me I'm dreaming right now and get back to 5.0 land.. haha

(by the way, the sportsman II 351 block can handle 700hp @ 7000rpm.. ) :worship:

 

[SuperDust22]

I am just subscribing. I would like to know some of these questions too. I just bought a 351 for my fox but lately I have been wanting to put it in my 94'. I want to go carb'd though.

Dustin

 

[modular]

351

I dont belive the 351 had a roller cam till 94-95 .Any 351 befre then would have to be converted for a roller cam, but yeah you would need a differant oil pan, distributor, intake, headers, but your heads, timingcover, that kinda stuff would work? I like the 351 myself becasue its more cubic inches, but a strojer would be jsut as well Id think.

 

[jetuomi]

I dont belive the 351 had a roller cam till 94-95 .Any 351 befre then would have to be converted for a roller cam, but yeah you would need a differant oil pan, distributor, intake, headers, but your heads, timingcover, that kinda stuff would work? I like the 351 myself becasue its more cubic inches, but a strojer would be jsut as well Id think.

I'm quite sure 94+ 351's were roller.. I have a nice article here about a 351 build up to put out 413 hp and 430 torque for under $3000 including heads.. that's pretty basic.. so, with a bit more radical setup I could do probably 450+ quite easily and some fat torque..

the reason I don't want to do a stroker is because the 302 relatively weak once you approach 600hp.. my goal of a turbo 347 would exceed that I'm quite sure so during my rebuild I could spend an extra $500 or so and drop in a 351 (if its possible) so that's my thinking..

 

[Joes95GT]

I dont belive the 351 had a roller cam till 94-95

I believe you are correct.

I personally wouldn't build a 351 unless it's going to be an strip-only car. There is too much added expense in the 351 to make it a ho-hum-type of car. You could build your motor du jour from the 302 base and make almost as much power as the 351. The horsepower per dollar ratio would be way down, and the car wouldn't completely suck gas.

What's the car's purpose? Daily driver, weekend car, strip car?

Also, I haven't heard much good about those sportsman II blocks. I wouldn't put anything over 7000 RPM or 700 horsepower in a 2-bolt block, unless I was trying to grenade it. I don't think you meant that you were going to try it. I'm just throwing around ideas. I've heard 600 HP @ 7000 RPM is liveable. 700 is pushing it.

Joe

 

[jetuomi]

well, its a daily driver and its going to live with me for at least another 5-10 years, I'm gonna be the dad that can tell stories to his kid about his muscle car AND actually still have it.. haha

seriously though I've always loved a 351 since my dad had one in the truck I grew up with and learned to drive (1991 F250 4x4 supercab Lariat)

Based on the #'s I'm getting its only going to cost me $500 or so more ONCE I actually get the block (haha) because I need so many new 302 parts anyways..

as for 700rpm @ 7000, haha, you're right, since it'll be hyd. roller, I probably won't go beyond 6500.. and 650hp..

but if the costs are close I'm thinking 351 can't hurt.. especially when the turbo comes in.. if its really expensive then 331 is my future.. (still an awesome motor!)

I believe you are correct.

I personally wouldn't build a 351 unless it's going to be an strip-only car. There is too much added expense in the 351 to make it a ho-hum-type of car. You could build your motor du jour from the 302 base and make almost as much power as the 351. The horsepower per dollar ratio would be way down, and the car wouldn't completely suck gas.

What's the car's purpose? Daily driver, weekend car, strip car?

Also, I haven't heard much good about those sportsman II blocks. I wouldn't put anything over 7000 RPM or 700 horsepower in a 2-bolt block, unless I was trying to grenade it. I don't think you meant that you were going to try it. I'm just throwing around ideas. I've heard 600 HP @ 7000 RPM is liveable. 700 is pushing it.

Joe

 

[T_5.0_N'works]

Well my 351w is almost done, I was going to put it in my 92 coupe but decided I'd like to have an sn95 with my 351w. So it's basically the same as dropping the 351w in my coupe anyways. It's going to be a turbo'ed motor so it should be pushing 550-600rwhp.

If I were you I would stick with hydraulic roller, you can convert the older blocks to hydro roller. buy the conversion lifters like I did but they are 400 bucks or you can have your spider and lifter valley drilled to except good ole 99 dollar stock lifter.

Just search for the parts you need on the swap, although you won't gain any performance if you don't do engine work on th 351w, just dropping in one from another vehicle will give you less HP and a tad more torque, so you need to build it.

 

[jetuomi]

Well my 351w is almost done, I was going to put it in my 92 coupe but decided I'd like to have an sn95 with my 351w. So it's basically the same as dropping the 351w in my coupe anyways. It's going to be a turbo'ed motor so it should be pushing 550-600rwhp.

If I were you I would stick with hydraulic roller, you can convert the older blocks to hydro roller. buy the conversion lifters like I did but they are 400 bucks or you can have your spider and lifter valley drilled to except good ole 99 dollar stock lifter.

Just search for the parts you need on the swap, although you won't gain any performance if you don't do engine work on th 351w, just dropping in one from another vehicle will give you less HP and a tad more torque, so you need to build it.

perfect point, I would hope to pickup the block (hyd. roller) and do a rebuild of the bottom end just like I'm planning on doing with my 302 anyways.. get a 10:1 forged setup going... what heads are you running on the beast you're building???

 

[T_5.0_N'works]

perfect point, I would hope to pickup the block (hyd. roller) and do a rebuild of the bottom end just like I'm planning on doing with my 302 anyways.. get a 10:1 forged setup going... what heads are you running on the beast you're building???

Box stock 185 AFR's w/upgraded springs.

 

[1slow95]

Im getting ready to start on mine real soon. Should be well over 400rwhp N/A. The 351 swap headers are going to be your biggest expense over going with a 302 based engine. Kooks is the best and they run around $600 I think. I think hooker also makes swap headers for the 94-95 for around $200 but Im not sure of the quality/fit.

Of course larger parts, IE. bigger heads, stronger transmission, rear end, are gonna cost more, but if you're making serious power with a 331 those will still need changed.

 

[jetuomi]

Im getting ready to start on mine real soon. Should be well over 400rwhp N/A. The 351 swap headers are going to be your biggest expense over going with a 302 based engine. Kooks is the best and they run around $600 I think. I think hooker also makes swap headers for the 94-95 for around $200 but Im not sure of the quality/fit.

Of course larger parts, IE. bigger heads, stronger transmission, rear end, are gonna cost more, but if you're making serious power with a 331 those will still need changed.

hey, I have an answer for that too haha, I have 302 BBK ceramic long-tubes which I'm hoping to sell for a pretty $$ ..

that's the question I'm really wondering, if I can use my current 302 top-end given that its all pretty high flow stuff for a 302, should be "ok" for a 351 until I can get better heads, etc, as time goes on..

 

[T_5.0_N'works]

You will be alright if they flow the 250 like you said.

You will have to have them drilled to fit the 1/2 head stud.

 

[jetuomi]

You will be alright if they flow the 250 like you said.

You will have to have them drilled to fit the 1/2 head stud.

yeah they are ported max flow comes @ 600 lift, and these heads I think are drilled for 1/2" and have a bushing installed to fit the 302 7/16's head bolt..

cool, I'm reading the FMS 2004 book right now.. haha, nice prices for a 351 short-block..

 

[1slow95]

Almost fogot, a cowl hood is pretty much required...depending on what intake you go with. You can use motor mounts from a 'vert to get about 3/4" more clearance. If you go with the Trick Flow box intake, I think a 4" cowl is very close. Or you could cut out your factory hood and leave the intake sticking through it .

 

[1slow95]

Here's a complete list that Jesse(yellow1995cobra) gave me for a 351 swap:

1)Convertible motor mounts (they are beefier then coupes, you could also use drop mounts, but they are solid)
2)Heads need 1/2 inch holes
3)lower intake
4)94 lightning distributor, then swap the gear from your old dist onto the lightning one. FYI, lightning used a flat tappet hyd motor, so the dist gear was cast, not steel like ours. If your using a hyd ROLLER cam, it must be steel.
5)new longer belt!
6)If your using an older block (non roller), you will need to either tap the block for the spider hold down(for the lifters), or use tie-bar lifters which cost 400+. If you dont use a hyd roller cam, then it wont matter.
7)swap headers, KOOKS!
8)The rubber hoses that go from the water pump to heater pipe and thermostat need to be longer. I went to autozone to get the one from the lightning, but i didnt no what to call them, so i just boought some over sized pieces of rubber hoses that were the same sizes and cut them to fit.
9) Rubber hose between rails needs to be replaced with longer hose(high pressure fuel injection hose)
10)Oil pan - canton 7qt
11) new balancer and flywheel (28.8 oz, unless the motor is zero balanced)
12) cowl hood
I think thats it! Most of the stuff "would be" replaced with a stroked 302, so its really not that bad.

Also, here's an article I found a while back that explains the swap really well.
CLICK HERE

 

[Nik_95Cobra]

I dont belive the 351 had a roller cam till 94-95

The 93-95 Gen 1 Lightnings have to be converted to roller. Was going to go that route @ 1st but decided not to.

 

[mr_woodster]

http://www.toohighpsi.com/BudgetTT/ttcapriinter.htm

 

[jetuomi]

hmm... I've been reading a lot about building a solid roller 351.. could rev to 7000 easily.. BUT, I have mixed reviews about something, do you still need to adjust your valve lash or not??

awesome list !! thanks for the links.. yeah, since I need a new balancer / flywheel, the list keeps shrinking.. I was getting a new distributor anyways as well, and, I was thinking of the Trickflow R for 351 intake, that should clear no??? (what the heck, I'd like a 2 inch cowl hood since some cabbie's insurance is paying for my new bumper / hood paintjob)...

I was looking, a 393 stroker can make 500 NA hp @ 6000 rpm.. isn't that sick..

 

[blksn955.o]

1. the roller 351's started sometime in the 93 build date, some 93 are roller some are not.
2. The roller blocks have a F4TE stamped on the block by the starter.
3. the lower will have to be swapped out but the upper should work, provided that you have an upper that has an avail. 351 lower. (some edlb., gt40, TFS are made in both 302/351 forms).

 

[jetuomi]

1. the roller 351's started sometime in the 93 build date, some 93 are roller some are not.
2. The roller blocks have a F4TE stamped on the block by the starter.
3. the lower will have to be swapped out but the upper should work, provided that you have an upper that has an avail. 351 lower. (some edlb., gt40, TFS are made in both 302/351 forms).

beauty, thanks for that code and info, and I WOULD buy the only edelbrock intake with no 351 lower available (rpm2) haha...