351 windsor in a 1971 mach 1?
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Honestly I'm pretty certain there's no way to rebuild it without spending as much as a 408 or 418 crate windsor and there's not the amount of speed parts out there for the cleveland. Plus it's a 4V head engine and so streetability is not really the best. If you've got better, cheap ideas to make 550 STREETABLE HP for less than 7K I'm open for suggestions.
Thanks
jikelly
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
I've got a 94 351w roller block in my 73 mustang bolted to a Tremec 3550 5 speed. Seems to work well. I got the block from Remanufactured Engines by City Motor Supply - Domestic and Import for like 750 with the core charge and shipping. WAY CHEAP!!!
The engine has a stage 1 Trick Flow cam and some somewhat radical heads from these folks Welcome To POWERHEADS. Your High Performance Engine Specialist
They don't make as much power on the low compression engine, but it runs well and once I fuel inject it I'm hoping to get increased gas mileage. Currently I'm getting like 13 city 17 hwy. I've got roughly 6000 miles on the engine with no problems.
The engine has a stage 1 Trick Flow cam and some somewhat radical heads from these folks Welcome To POWERHEADS. Your High Performance Engine Specialist
They don't make as much power on the low compression engine, but it runs well and once I fuel inject it I'm hoping to get increased gas mileage. Currently I'm getting like 13 city 17 hwy. I've got roughly 6000 miles on the engine with no problems.
Some one's fed you a line of BS. The ONLY thing more expensive in doing a Cleveland is labor in the heads due to the compound valve angles. As for streetability, that too is BS. It depends on what intake and cam combo you choose for it. With the 4 bbl heads, you do not need to go to single plane intakes and huge cam grinds to equal a built Windsor.And no need for aftermarket heads, unless you just like to spend money. Less is better. Based on what all you've posted here, you've got a lot to learn in building Fords. Rebuild what you have.
woodsnake
15 Year Member
http://**********************/ford-...tating-assemblies/351-cleveland-stroker-kits/
Shop around, keep doing your research before you spend any money...
Shop around, keep doing your research before you spend any money...
Well gee.....thanks? I guess there are those that have something constructive to say and those that just want to look like the smartest guy in the room. I guess I know which one you are.....
Anyway, thanks to the rest of you. I'm curious if anyone here has experience with Keith Craft, Pro-formance engines, Coast High Performance and any other good quality engine builders that you would recommend for a stroker 351W. I'm particularly interested in the 408/418/427 builds. Just for the record, I WILL rebuild the 351C but back to factory stock specs. It's original and I'm looking to get some tire shredding power without ruining my motor. I just came pretty close (actually the jury is still out, maybe it is completely toasted I don't know). I'll keep her tucked away for a day that I want to make it a bone stocker. It's been in the family for over 35 years and so it's an important car with a lot of history.
Thanks everyone most of you have been great.
I don't have personal knowledge, but know people who have used Coast High Performance for 347 stroker motors and they have been VERY happy with the outcome. While I'm sure some people are passionate about certain breeds of motors, I am like you. Currrently, I'm running a 30 over cleveland and have spent probably 2 times what it would have cost to go windsor. I'm in the process of building a 408 windsor stroker, Eagle forges internals, Professional Products Hurricane intake for the move to EFI, and a nice set of aluminum heads for some good old fashioned tire smokin power.
Don't get me wrong, my cleveland roasts the tires nicely, but try to find an EFI or blower intake for a cleveland.
Don't get me wrong, my cleveland roasts the tires nicely, but try to find an EFI or blower intake for a cleveland.
Well gee.....thanks? I guess there are those that have something constructive to say and those that just want to look like the smartest guy in the room. I guess I know which one you are.....
Look, I could care less if you "like me" or not. But what I said still stands true, based on your obvious bias towards running a Windsor, you've listened to someone who's never run a Cleveland, much less rebuilt one. I'd bet they're not old enough to have done so, based on what they told you. You stated a Cleveland was more expensive to build, but yet now you want to build both ? What does that tell me?
I may not be the smartest guy in the room, but I DO have experience that reaches all the way back to the 70's when everyone knew for a fact that the Windsor was less of an engine to a Cleveland. And I DO know that a 4 bbl headed Cleveland IS completely streetable. I've actually driven them enough to know. You want to spend money on a Windsor? It's your money. But you came here asking advice and I/we gave it to you. Want advice on a Cleveland? Ask the Nascar guys. They're still running them, in hybrid form bolted to a Windsor block. And that's not becasue the Cleveland blocks aren't strong enough, it's due to the fact that they've been out of production until recentlySince when did they make blower intakes for a Windsor ? EFI for a Cleveland? Any of the single plane intakes can be modified for the injector bungs. Don't know why you'd want to, unless you live in the mountains and need the only advantage EFI has over a carb in elevation changes.
Mr. Hearne, I was not attacking you, nor was I discounting your knowledge, merely stating the obvious. While i'm sure my 35 years of experience in building Fords palls to your experience, I think I might know a wee little bit. I have built windsors, clevelands, side oilers, fe's, you name it. I live near you, along the gulf coast and do not need EFI for mountains, I don't "need" it at all, but I WANT it, and yes, there are other EFI options that will work on clevelands. There is a reason Ford stopped producing cleveland blocks, mostly due to the poor oiling issue with the rear cam lobes. The heads are awesome, hence the BOSS motors.
Blower drive service offers blower intakes for both windsors and clevelands. The cleveland version is more expensive.
As a die hard NASCAR fan I am well aware of what is in a NASCAR engine, a windsor block with cleveland style canted valve heads. But I dare you to run your stock cleveland for 500 miles at 7000 rpm.
Trust me, I love cleveland motors, but my pocket book doesn't.
Blower drive service offers blower intakes for both windsors and clevelands. The cleveland version is more expensive.
As a die hard NASCAR fan I am well aware of what is in a NASCAR engine, a windsor block with cleveland style canted valve heads. But I dare you to run your stock cleveland for 500 miles at 7000 rpm.
Trust me, I love cleveland motors, but my pocket book doesn't.
The reason Ford killed the Cleveland had nothing to do with the oiling issues (which are easily fixed for a few dollars) It was due to the emissions regulations & economics at the time. Everyone knows that. It wasn't stopped, but lived on another10-15 years in Australia. You have the know how, but still haven't made your case here.
Dude just go away......
Good because honestly I could care less about everything you are spewing out. The ONLY one here that has bias and can only see things one way is you. You of course think you're teaching everyone something and the torch you're carrying for the 351C......dude get over it and get over yourself. If you were "somebody" in the engine building world you wouldn't have the time or energy to comment on here as much as you do. The fact that I'm building both engines is none of your business and what do you care what I do. I started this with a simple question about fitment that I wanted answered by someone that's done it. I just want to try something different....so what's your deal. Basically you just want to butt in and tell everyone what you think they need to know or correct someone when you have the chance. Think about it. I've looked at some of your other posts. Of course you will not agree or recognize this which doesn't surprise me. Probably why you have so much time to answer posts....no body wants to be around you. Well, I'm off to pull the motor out of the car and then I'm gonna STUFF A WINDSOR IN IT!!!! SO THERE!!! Why? Because that's what I want to do and BECAUSE I CAN! Again, to everyone else that doesn't want to show off or try to make themselves seem superior and justs wants to talk shop and help out, THANKS GUYS!
twice. Feel better now ?
Okay, whatever bro, you're a freakin genius. You know everything there is to know about everything. Tell you what, I'll just pick one at random. Keith Craft has a 408 windsor with a dyno proven 517Hp and 533Tq for $7875. You build me a Cleveland that is dyno run and tested and tuned with aluminum heads, intake, water pump MSD ignition with a roller cam. You provide ALL the parts from carb to pan all new save for the block at an equal or cheaper price and I'll buy it from you. Actually given all your knowledge you should be able to build it with far more power than that....you do have a dyno right? Okay just PM me when you have it ready.This was the first time you proved yourself ignorant.
Cool link, thanks. Sounds like a bad motor. Just to be clear, I enjoyed my Cleveland and still believe it's a great motor that you can make great power with. I have no doubt that I could build a very powerful engine out of mine. This post took a strange turn when "somebody" obviously got offended by the idea that anyone would be interested in doing a Windsor build instead of a Cleveland. I have nothing against the 351C I just recognize, regardless of what anyone says, that the aftermarket performance products and support for the 351W far exceed that of the 351C. Did they have any info on the cost of the build for something like that? Awesome build that it is I'm sure John had a lot of time and money invested in getting those numbers. Also, what's the real world longevity on these builds they do for the competitions? Just curious, not implying it wouldn't, just don't know. Thanks again.
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