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351w na build combo opinions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dan gibson
  • Start date Start date Dec 28, 2019
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    351w build nacombo
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Dan gibson

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#1
  • Dec 28, 2019
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I have a 351w bored 40 over. Stock bottom end, all arp bolts. I have a vic jr single plane intake, trick flow stage 3 hyrdraulic roller cam, trick flow 1.7 rocker arms,so cam will be 640 lift do not know the other specs of cam off hand right now, trick flow twisted wedge 11r 205 cylinder heads, 56cc combustion chamber, trickflow track max valve springs for larger cam lift, forged pistons with valve reliefs should be right around 11.1 compression, all msd ignition 6aL box, holley efi sniper carb. With 1 3/4 long tubes what kinda power should I expect or what would you change on the combo not worried about drivability. Shooting for atleast 450 to the motor! Do you think that is possible with this combo I have? it's not running yet getting ready to put the top end together just wanting some of your opinions before I unbox everything and put it together in case theres a more thought out combo you guys may have experience with. Also what kinda numbers have you guys gotten with your 351w builds and what parts did you use?
 

RaggedGT

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#2
  • Dec 29, 2019
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This is another one of those threads, that pops up from time to time, that I don’t completely know the answer too. While all your parts sound pretty healthy, but I can’t give you an educated guess, but because I’m curious, I’ll ask a guy (or guys) that can rattle off some good info
@FastDriver @90sickfox
If they have time-they will drop in
 

96pushrod

I think they're a little easier to get off
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#3
  • Dec 29, 2019
  • #3
I’d say 450+ fwhp will be pretty easy with that combo. Should make that plus more all day.

I’m curious how much more the 1.7 rockers will make over a set of 1.6.
 

Steel1

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#4
  • Dec 29, 2019
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Yeah , that should be a pretty stout combo.
If possible keep us posted on what kind of power it makes.
 

revhead347

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#5
  • Dec 29, 2019
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Well over 500hp at the crank.

Kurt
 
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Dan gibson

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  • Dec 29, 2019
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Thanks for all the replys I will hopefully have it on an engine dyno in a month and let you guys know what it does.
 

FastDriver

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I'm not a carb guy, and I would always go with a custom cam, but the heads, displacement, and lift can get you there. The question is whether or not you're going to run out of RPM on that cam or on the limitations of the rotating assembly first. Sorry that I can't give a good recommendation on a carb, but those are the right heads, IMO. It should rip. I'm assuming a manual trans, but if it's auto, it can look like less power on the dyno than it will run like at the track.
 
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a91what

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With those heads on pump gas you will want to set timing around 28-29* at wot. Trust me when I say you will see a drop off in power above that point, the 11r head is not like most sbf heads and excessive timing will hold you back. Even lower comp wont like much over 29*
Each engine is different but this has been my finding from a few builds.
 
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Dan gibson

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#9
  • Dec 29, 2019
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FastDriver said:
Ya it will be a manual trans, thinking about tko 600, or a lenco if I can find one in my price range.
Click to expand...
 
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Dan gibson

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a91what said:
With those heads on pump gas you will want to set timing around 28-29* at wot. Trust me when I say you will see a drop off in power above that point, the 11r head is not like most sbf heads and excessive timing will hold you back. Even lower comp wont like much over 29*
Each engine is different but this has been my finding from a few builds.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks that's good to know, I will be sure to try that when getting it all tuned in!
 
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jjperf

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#11
  • Jan 4, 2020
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Hey man!
I believe that combo will exceed your 450hp mark by a huge margin; In fact I think 540+ is not out of the realm of possibility...those heads just flat rock n' roll. That being said, I would fear that it may happen at a far more lofty rpm than a stock bottom end is gonna like continuously. Just bench racing here based on past builds of course, but I'd be willing to bet that combo won't start making good power until 3k or later with less than 360 cubes pumping air, and is going to want to pull to the moon...or I mean at least until the limits of hydraulic lifter control. Furthermore, with that hairy of a cam, a guy really needs at least another full point of static comp to keep your cylinder pressure in the sweet zone. That is if I'm looking at the right grind of course. In short, it looks like this is one of those builds that could be optimized either way with just a couple of parts changed. Like either go with a nice light aftermarket crank and rods, bump the comp up a bit, and go ahead and twist it to seven+ and make 600+hp, OR... back off a whole bunch on cam, dual plane it, and enjoy a big gob of upper mid-range and throw in the towel at about six so she'll live forever. Also, I HATE to even go here, because it's such a typical response from the whole "dude, go bigger everything" camp, but there's no denying of course that 408+ cubes would gobble up all that air nicely and likely live a long and happy life twisting to 6500-ish, too...just something else to consider if you're not completely against the idea of a stroker motor, sir. One thing about it, you've got some major kick@$$ parts in the pile; those heads are awesome, AND you're gonna LOVE that Sniper set-up when it's all dialed in...the response on a good combo is insane, and it's really nice to be able to just bump the key and walk away, even on a pretty aggressively cammed motor. I know I wouldn't give mine up for nothin'! As stated before, please keep us posted; I'll be dying to know how that bad larry runs...you should be happy no matter what! Best of luck on a smooth build, and happy wrenching, bud!
 
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Dan gibson

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So after a way longer time than expected I got the engine on the dyno the other day. It was a dts dyno. It was 90 plus degrees outside and pretty humid. It made good power but not what I had expected. It put down 470hp and max tq was 440 at 5300rpm. It made its Max hp at 5800rpm with a 13.32 afr. He said the lifters and valve train were not floating. I don’t understand why he didn’t rev it to 6800rpm, like the cam and heads and intake are all good up up to. The dyno chart goes to 5900rpm but the power drops off by like 6hp. I’m not sure if that’s just where he let off or not. But I feel like it should have revved way higher and been over 500hp. What are your thoughts I know everyone thinks there motor should make more, but I don’t understand why it didn’t rev higher or if that’s just when he let off. I will get more details next time I talk to him when I pick it up. I know he mentioned he didn’t think i should rev it higher since it’s hydro lifters but I’ve reved a 331sbf with the same lifters to well over 6500rpm.
 
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Dan gibson

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#13
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Dan gibson said:
So after a way longer time than expected I got the engine on the dyno the other day. It was a dts dyno. It was 90 plus degrees outside and pretty humid. It made good power but not what I had expected. It put down 470hp and max tq was 440 at 5300rpm. It made its Max hp at 5800rpm with a 13.32 afr. He said the lifters and valve train were not floating. I don’t understand why he didn’t rev it to 6800rpm, like the cam and heads and intake are all good up up to. The dyno chart goes to 5900rpm but the power drops off by like 6hp. I’m not sure if that’s just where he let off or not. But I feel like it should have revved way higher and been over 500hp. What are your thoughts I know everyone thinks there motor should make more, but I don’t understand why it didn’t rev higher or if that’s just when he let off. I will get more details next time I talk to him when I pick it up. I know he mentioned he didn’t think i should rev it higher since it’s hydro lifters but I’ve reved a 331sbf with the same lifters to well over 6500rpm.
Click to expand...
 

a91what

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13.3 is best lean power ..... Personally I would have enrichened It to 12.5
 
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revhead347

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#15
  • Aug 26, 2021
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Yeah, add some fuel to it. 6500rpms is nothing for hydraulic lifters. You are fine.

Kurt
 

CarMichael Angelo

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If the guy saw the power curve start to fall off above a certain RPM, there wasn’t any point of revving the engine any higher.
 

a91what

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Depends .. cylinder to cylinder you can have up to a full point afr spread. Port injection usually holds this down lower about. 5 of a point.. at 13.3afr the leanest cylinder could be seeing 13.8afr...
You see the issue here, power falls off hard. What was the timing? Was latency checked? Did the timing fall of with rpm (latency). Did the curve have a slightly rising timing value? Ect
 
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Dan gibson

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  • Aug 27, 2021
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a91what said:
Depends .. cylinder to cylinder you can have up to a full point afr spread. Port injection usually holds this down lower about. 5 of a point.. at 13.3afr the leanest cylinder could be seeing 13.8afr...
You see the issue here, power falls off hard. What was the timing? Was latency checked? Did the timing fall of with rpm (latency). Did the curve have a slightly rising timing value? Ect
Click to expand...
Believe he said timing was at 32. I am getting the motor tomorrow so I will ask these questions. Thanks
 

a91what

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#19
  • Aug 27, 2021
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An 11r head with 11:1 comp ratio... Depending on the fuel it may be over timed. Every 11r build on pumpgas I have done makes best power at 27-29* the 11r head is very efficient
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#20
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Did he make more than one run?
did he do any fiddling?
how long has he been running a dyno?
 
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