Progress Thread 351w Swap...in A Vert

joetrainer31 · Nov 16, 2014

This progress thread will be a little different in that the swap is almost complete. However, many pics were taken along the way to document the progress as well as the problems. Some of you fellow Stangers may not agree with the engine combo I ended up with. I understand that it is a preference issue and you are certainly entitled to not agree.

I hope to that this thread will be helpful; to anyone wanting to install a 351w in their 94-95 vert. Now that we have been fully engaged in the project and past the point of no return long ago I must advise against the swap into a vert. There are nuances in a vert's construction and engineering that make this project more difficult than with a coup. I hope to give some further detail with pictures shortly. Tomorrow looks to be 1st start. It will be exciting.

I have several other threads with technical questions for issues we ran into along the way. I'd like to thank each of you for your input. I cannot remember all of your names, but I do remember Kurt because he answers on a lot of my threads. Thanks all!

So you all know the premise of the swap, it was: the 95 Mustang Ford should have built. Keeping in the spirit of that theme I restricted the build to be 50 state smog legal and to retain as stock an appearance as possible. I also like the idea of reliability and longevity. All those factors were taken into account with this build. I'll also include an extensive parts list as a help at the end of the thread.

Please feel free to chime in along the way.

Dacon · Nov 16, 2014

Interested in your exhaust set up, and how loud it is compared to your 302.

Always wanted a 351w just for the stronger block, but am worried the extra cubes will make it far too loud for my daily driver, mind you I'm looking at 408 strokers and that does not help in that category lol.

joetrainer31 · Nov 16, 2014

Dacon said:
Interested in your exhaust set up, and how loud it is compared to your 302.

Always wanted a 351w just for the stronger block, but am worried the extra cubes will make it far too loud for my daily driver, mind you I'm looking at 408 strokers and that does not help in that category lol.

The exhaust fitment has proven to be a real pain. I'll just mention it: I am using the Motorsport shorty headers that I used on my 302. Swap headers are not needed. If you use the solid drop mounts from Late Model Restoration you may even need to shorten your H-Pipe a bit. I'll most likely find that out tomorrow.

I have a high flow catted H-Pipe on there right now with FlowMaster cat backs. If it is too loud for a daily driver I can always put a more quiet series FlowMaster, or a stock muffler. Either option will quiet it down.

F-Body Cameros and Fire Birds from that era had exhaust notes that were similar to stock Mustangs. I have no doubt that you could make it as quiet as you would like.

As to the sound quality of my current set-up, I hope to find out tomorrow!

Dacon · Nov 17, 2014

Don't know if you've fit it yet, but how big of a cowl did you need (or did you at all) with the drop mounts and your GT40 intake?

joetrainer31 · Nov 17, 2014

Dacon said:
Don't know if you've fit it yet, but how big of a cowl did you need (or did you at all) with the drop mounts and your GT40 intake?

With the drop mounts I can fit it under the 96 Cobra hood I have if I remove the blanket. However, there is steering shaft interference. The headers had to be "messaged" with a hammer then re-welded to make them fit. One cannot move the steering shaft in a vert.

Chythar · Nov 18, 2014

I'm certainly interested in this, especially how you'll pass the California BAR inspection. I passed when I did my Cobra engine swap in to my V6, but that was much more straightforward than your project; I had a wrecked Cobra to pull parts from. I imagine you'll have to have all the emissions parts from a 95 Cobra R in order to pass.

joetrainer31 · Nov 18, 2014

Chythar said:
I'm certainly interested in this, especially how you'll pass the California BAR inspection. I passed when I did my Cobra engine swap in to my V6, but that was much more straightforward than your project; I had a wrecked Cobra to pull parts from. I imagine you'll have to have all the emissions parts from a 95 Cobra R in order to pass.

The project is held up by a couple of days due to fitment issues. However, what I did was use a 351w GT40 lower manifold (you can find them at the end of a rainbow) with my SVO GT40 upper and retained all emissions functions as they were from the factory. It sounds simple, but it has caused many fitment issues and headaches. All the parts I bought with the exception of the MAF are CARB legal -even the hi flow cats. If I get complaints about the MAF I'll simply put the stock one back in.

The car originally had a Cobra long block. I basically removed the 302, inserted a 351, and put all the same equipment (some parts new, some used, some fabed) back on top with 24lbs injectors. I used a 351w from the same model year or newer. One can go newer, but not older.

I hope to dispel fitment fiction about this kind of conversion. It has been a real bear. Maybe coupes are different, but in a vert...I would not do it again.

joetrainer31 · Dec 8, 2014

"Big Red" is back together and running. We just did the 1st 50 mile oil change. We are now working on the 500 mile oil change/clutch break-in, and tweaking small issues that always pop up. Below are some pics. Many more will be posted as soon as we get it 100% and cleaned up!
The 20 year old 5.0 (still in decent shape)

And the new 351w!:

More to come...

toolhead81 · Dec 12, 2014

Dude, is that a Ford Motor Company tat on your arm? If so, that's awesome

joetrainer31 · Dec 13, 2014

toolhead81 said:
Dude, is that a Ford Motor Company tat on your arm? If so, that's awesome

That's exactly what it is. That's one reason he got the swap job. I have more pics, but i'm working 60 hours right now and have no time to post. Soon...

joetrainer31 · Dec 16, 2014

More delays due to work, and car gremlins. Lemme just say, never use solid drop mounts for the 351 swap unless you want to hate your car. The vibration is INSANE and is not tolerable for more than a 1/4 mile. We just switched out the mounts for Energy Suspension mounts and WOW, so much better.

FYI for anyone doing the swap: the Energy Suspension mounts are designed after the convertible mounts. They are lower profile than the coup mounts/Urethane mounts. I can still fit the entire assembly under my 96 Cobra hood no problem.

addermk2 · Dec 17, 2014

I have solid mounts under my 351... no vibrations here!

joetrainer31 · Dec 17, 2014

addermk2 said:
I have solid mounts under my 351... no vibrations here!

In a vert?

addermk2 · Dec 17, 2014

No, but your chassis should be more ridgid, not less.

joetrainer31 · Dec 17, 2014

addermk2 said:
No, but your chassis should be more ridgid, not less.

Exactly! Its about 200% more rigid according to Ford. Thus, WAY more vibration w/solid drop mounts. This is one reason why I want to complete this thread. The 351w swap in a vert has some challenges not found in coups. Plus, I want to eliminate rumors & errors as best I can.

addermk2 · Dec 18, 2014

A guy local to me has a 393 in his vert on solids. It's smooth. You might have an underlying problem.

joetrainer31 · Dec 18, 2014

addermk2 said:
A guy local to me has a 393 in his vert on solids. It's smooth. You might have an underlying problem.

I guess anything is possible. Thoughts?

joetrainer31 · Dec 21, 2014

Pics, description, and parts list still forthcoming. Delays due to MUCH work. However, after getting all the kinks out of the build I can say that I'm am very happy with the combo.

A 351 w/an E cam is very streetable. It also charges like a freight train around 3k RPMs. This car flattens out and sprints. Wow! Also, the E cam has zero idle issues w/the T4M0, as long as there are no vacuum leaks and your PIP is good. Its a really great combo for a daily driver.

joetrainer31 · Dec 28, 2014

And the picture progress continues...
Alex poses with the HARD TO FIND 351 swap oil pump. There is only one oil pump that will clear the crank and fit under the swap pan at the same time. No, its not a 302 pump, no its not any old 351 pump HV or otherwise, and no Late Model Restoration does not sell the pump even though they advertise a 351w swap pump. Their pump [will not] fit. The only pump that will fit is a S.V. oil pump from a 1991 Crown Vic w/a 351w since that's what the 351w swap pan actually is -a '91 Crown Vic.

Bottom side of the car. On a Vert the K-Member XBrace can stay, but the lateral bar on the rear of the brace will require removal to accomodate the oil pan (with drop mounts or convertible mounts, we used Energy Susp vert mounts). Also, you will need offset steering rack bushing to push the rack down, and spacers (washers) to push the sway bar down so it doesn't rub into the oil pan.

A set of genuine 1995 Cobra heads (GT40). We had them cleaned, refurbished from top to bottom, Ecam springs installed, and 3 angle valve job peformed. Again, the goal is streetability, reliability, smog legal, and budget friendlyness.

Degreeing the camshaft (a must). Don't worry eagle eyes, the heads got turned around. Also, the rocker arms pictured (Pro form 1.6), got swapped out for some Scorpian 1.6 Endurance rockers.

302 Motorcraft water pump & stock 351 balancer (no spacer needed in 94-95s)...yes, the heads were reversed prior to startup.

That factory stock look...

Plopping it back in the car. If you do not remove the front bumbper you will need an extension for the picker.

Next round of pics coming up...

joetrainer31 · Dec 28, 2014

Unassuming, stock looking, and beautiful, lol.

Underside...

Oil pan to steering rack fitment: again, offset rack bushings were used. The sway bar is too close here and will rub. We did not yet have the spacers in place.

Solid drop mounts. We later switched them out for Energy Suspension (ES) mounts. The ES mounts supply a much better driving experience (IMO). Both styles of mounts allowed the motor to fit under my 96 Cobra hood. However, the Urethane mounts which are styled after the coupe mounts are too tall for my style hood.

Coming together. One advantage the 94-95s have is that the accessory brackets can bolt right back and a stock 351 balancer with no spacer can be used. Everything aligns perfectly. The fuel rails are BBK rails. They are a horrible design, they came with missing parts, and not all the bolt holes were threaded. They also leaked and required clamps. Also, the front passenger side rail mounting tab will require some grinding down if you wish to use the heater core line as we did. The tab is too fat and pushes the injector out so that it intersects the heater line -and that also causes leaks. Avoid them unless you like trouble. Nonetheless, after some effort, we got them to comply. Lastly, a Richmond distributor from a 351 F250 was used. The Richmond unit has 100% new electronics (incl PIP). You will need to switch out the gear for a stainless steel gear...

Upper & EGR tub: The tube will need lengthening just as the air tube will in the rear of the heads. We used FRPP 302 headers for less headaches and ease of fitment. They are long enough to fit with the ES vert mounts installed. However, because of the motor's width, you will need to cut, bend, and weld your mid pipe to make it wider. The usage of FRPP 302 headers not only physically fit, they also fit our budget mindset, and allowed us to retain the EGR tube for state inspection.

Before start up...

More to come...

Progress Thread 351w Swap...in A Vert

joetrainer31

Dacon

Active Member

joetrainer31

Dacon

Active Member

joetrainer31

Chythar

Recently finished repairing my rear

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

toolhead81

Member

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

addermk2

joetrainer31

addermk2

joetrainer31

addermk2

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

Similar threads

Progress Thread 351w Swap...in A Vert

Active Member

Active Member

Recently finished repairing my rear

Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency