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  • 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-
  • SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech

3650 TSB and lower fluid level

  • Thread starter Thread starter BMan5150
  • Start date Start date Apr 21, 2005
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BMan5150

Founding Member
Feb 19, 2002
309
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Columbus, OH
Apr 21, 2005
#1
  • Apr 21, 2005
  • #1
Just wanted to post my experience in messing with lower, different fluid levels with the 3650 tranny. I got a copy of the TSB that applies to the 3650 owners complaining about gear clash/grind on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift especially when cold. Part of the TSB recommends using regular Mercon ATF fluid vs. the Mobil One Synthetic ATF and also lowering the fluid level from 4 quarts to around 3.1 quarts.

I drained and refilled my 3650 with 3.3 quarts of Motorcraft Mercon ATF (per TSB fluid specs/part #) and immediately the 1-2 shift seemed better/easier, but not by a large margin. Then, about 100 miles and one week later, I noticed the shift quality was getting worse on the 1-2 and seemed far worse on the 2-3. I immediately drained my tranny and refilled it with 4 quarts of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF and immediately noticed improved shift action. However, all this did was bring it back to the normal "cruddy" shift quality. I'm back to living with this and still accept the fact that this 3650 tremec, while notchy as heck, seems to be pretty bullett-proof (hasn't broken yet! )

Another interesting note is that despite the fact that my car was completely level, 4 quarts of tranny fluid still left the fluid level below the fill hole - enough that it wasn't even close to spilling out. I should also mention that I do have Steeda lowering springs, which might slightly affect fill levels since I was on a drive-on lift but I can't imagine it would be that significant. I couldn't even feel the fluid with my fingers.

So, from my own personal experience, I would not recommend lowering your fluid level per that TSB for improved shift action. It just plain didn't work for me. I'm trying to focus on the fact that despite some serious abuse, this tranny is still holding up just fine. I guess I'll take that, although it would sure be nice if the tranny shifted well on top of being a sturdy piece of equipment.

It's definitely very frustrating when you get 10 different answers to this simple question - "what is the fill procedure with the 3650 tranny and what are the fluid specs?" Tremec and my Ford Manual says 4 quarts of Mobil One Synthetic; there's a TSB from Ford that says 3.1 quarts of Mercon non-synth. Based on my own personal experience, I'm sticking with Tremec and Ford's original specs.
 

RageStangX

New Member
Feb 14, 2004
84
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0
Franklinville,NJ
Apr 22, 2005
#2
  • Apr 22, 2005
  • #2
If mine doesnt get any better im going with my own treatment a tub of butter,crisco and vaseline mixed up.
 

hotrodnut

Member
Jul 12, 2004
672
0
17
North Florida
Apr 22, 2005
#3
  • Apr 22, 2005
  • #3
I've been through it too, went with the different types fluid and different levels and some would make the 1-2 shift better while making getting into gear from a stand still harder and then some making the other gears harder to shift but 1-2 ok . After 6 different tries of different fluids and levels I finally settled on using 3.7 (quantity fill level of the '04s) of the Motorcraft MERCON ATF #XT-2-QDX as recommended for the '05 and the TSB for the '01-'03 TR3650. That combo has given me the smoothest butter like shifts thus far in the Florida temperature zones.
 
L

LI-SVT

New Member
Apr 4, 2005
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Apr 22, 2005
#4
  • Apr 22, 2005
  • #4
What about Synchromesh?

Did you guys try the GM Synchromesh? I might try that next. I currently have Mobile 1 at the lower fill level. I still get a gind when the trans is cold. If I could just get rid of the grind I would be happy!
 

hotrodnut

Member
Jul 12, 2004
672
0
17
North Florida
Apr 22, 2005
#5
  • Apr 22, 2005
  • #5
LI-SVT said:
Did you guys try the GM Synchromesh? I might try that next. I currently have Mobile 1 at the lower fill level. I still get a gind when the trans is cold. If I could just get rid of the grind I would be happy!
Click to expand...

Yes, I tried that one and it made the 2nd gear shift better but getting into all the other gears were not as good.

After that change I called Tremec and talked to a Tech and he said do not use the GM Syncromesh because the syncro's in the 3650 are not brass and the material will swell and ruin them.
 
L

LI-SVT

New Member
Apr 4, 2005
9
0
0
Apr 22, 2005
#6
  • Apr 22, 2005
  • #6
Ah...Well then I guess the only chance of getting rid of the 1-2 grind is the TSB for a rebuild. Thaks for the info, will steer clear of Synchromesh.
 

StangPro

New Member
Sep 30, 2004
441
0
0
Roseville, MI
Apr 22, 2005
#7
  • Apr 22, 2005
  • #7
I couldn't shift to second at all below 40F outside, and this is after the rebuilt under warranty.

I switched to Royal Purple Synchromax and it's much smoother now, and using second gear in the cold is a choice.

It definitely helped.

The fluid level change is a band-aid BS "fix" in an attempt to get as many cars out of warranty as possible before they admit there's a problem.
It's all about the benjamins
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,209
17,892
224
Massachusetts
Apr 22, 2005
#8
  • Apr 22, 2005
  • #8
BMan5150 said:
Tremec and my Ford Manual says 4 quarts of Mobil One Synthetic; there's a TSB from Ford that says 3.1 quarts of Mercon non-synth. Based on my own personal experience, I'm sticking with Tremec and Ford's original specs.
Click to expand...

The TSB also includes replacing 1st gear, 2nd gear, both the 1-2 and 3-4 synchro assemblies and the shift rail system. All these parts have been redesigned. I have driven a post-fix T3650 and there is a big difference, but it's still a clunky trans in general.

Changing the fluid level isn't really gonna help when these parts all need to be changed.
 
S

STANGALANG

New Member
Apr 19, 2005
37
0
0
Jacksonville,Fla.
May 24, 2005
#9
  • May 24, 2005
  • #9
I's there a better trans to put in it? I'm new to the whole 3650 deal, cause I just bought mine but can they be replaced like with the TKO or something better?
 
9

98laseredgt

New Member
Jul 16, 2004
122
0
0
indianapolis
May 25, 2005
#10
  • May 25, 2005
  • #10
my 01 i just bought shifts like butter and it has the 3650 in it. is there any way to tell if the TSB has been done? my tranny has packaging tape that says "Tremec original equipment" on it.
 

Give Me TP

Member
Jun 17, 2004
936
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16
Republic of Texas
May 25, 2005
#11
  • May 25, 2005
  • #11
I drained and refilled mine over a year ago with 3L (3.2 quarts) of Havoline Dexron III. Along with an aftermarket short throw shifter, the occasional 1-2 grind and 3rd gear lockout I used to experience is completely cured.
 
S

SRMobile

Trend Micro poster child
Jun 1, 2004
0
0
16
May 25, 2005
#12
  • May 25, 2005
  • #12
I had the 3650 TSB done at first it was much better but then got abit worse. I put on about 1000km's on it and now it shifts like butter!

Patience! You have to let these new parts wear in abit.
 

cobra2798

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
303
2
0
Clermont, Florida
May 25, 2005
#13
  • May 25, 2005
  • #13
I drained mine and filled with 3.5l of havoline dexcronIII-atf. Along with the change and aftermarket shifter the problem is a lot better than it was but not completly gone. I decided to take a different approach and let the car warm up for about 5-10 min before driving. I was told it had something to do with the hot/cold viscosity of the fluid. Letting the car warm up that long haspretty much solved my problem, shifts like butter all day long even at high RPM's!
 
S

SRMobile

Trend Micro poster child
Jun 1, 2004
0
0
16
May 25, 2005
#14
  • May 25, 2005
  • #14
cobra2798 said:
I decided to take a different approach and let the car warm up for about 5-10 min before driving. I was told it had something to do with the hot/cold viscosity of the fluid. Letting the car warm up that long haspretty much solved my problem, shifts like butter all day long even at high RPM's!
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your car warms up for 10 - 15 mins your only warming up the motor.. Not the tranny.
 

cobra2798

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
303
2
0
Clermont, Florida
May 26, 2005
#15
  • May 26, 2005
  • #15
I was told to try this by a friend of my fathers who has the same problem with his 01' mach1. He says he was told to do this by a technician at a mustang performance shop in N.Y. i dont know who he is cause im in florida. I would think that even know the tranny is not in use at the time the fluid would still warm up bringing its viscosity to the correct thickness. You could be right but i swear it works for me and ive tried everything! it seems that a combination of a few small things has got my tranny working the way it should and thank god cause my car is out of warrenty and i aint got that kind of cash for the tsb, that i heard works and ive heard it dosent work so i think i would be takin a chance on it anyway! If you have any suggestions let me know!
 

hotrodnut

Member
Jul 12, 2004
672
0
17
North Florida
May 26, 2005
#16
  • May 26, 2005
  • #16
SRMobile said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your car warms up for 10 - 15 mins your only warming up the motor.. Not the tranny.
Click to expand...

The fact is . . . if you have the car in netural and the clutch out, the input shaft of the transmission will turn. The input shaft is geared directly to the cluster gear and it will turn too, therefore, the oil in the trans is getting splashed around and warmed up, although not up to the normal operating temp, it does help considerably warming up for a few mins for the initial drive off and gear shifts.
 

MineralG2k2GT

New Member
Feb 9, 2003
451
0
0
Lowell, MA
May 26, 2005
#17
  • May 26, 2005
  • #17
just to add my .02 sents..i added 4 qts of royal purple synchromax and the car has never shifted so smooth. made a big difference
 
R

raykrv6a

New Member
Sep 7, 2004
153
0
0
Maple Grove, MN
May 26, 2005
#18
  • May 26, 2005
  • #18
BMan5150 said:
Another interesting note is that despite the fact that my car was completely level, 4 quarts of tranny fluid still left the fluid level below the fill hole - enough that it wasn't even close to spilling out.
Click to expand...

I think Tremac said 3.7 liter's. Whatever that is exactly in quart's, I don't know.

I mixed half Mobil 1 syn and half Mercon and that works for me. No crunch and goes into 3rd at high rpm as there is enough friction in the syncros.
 
D

Delacruz1776

New Member
Apr 8, 2003
63
0
0
California
May 26, 2005
#19
  • May 26, 2005
  • #19
I'm going to try the purple synchromax. I'll be installing an MGW shifter this weekend and will try the purple. Hopefully I'll see a difference, cuz it does get frustrating leaving the light and struggling to get into second. I feel like I have to baby it.

Raykrv6a...if you don't mind me asking, what did you pay for your KB charger (kit)? I wouldn't mind getting into those hight 300's.
 
S

SRMobile

Trend Micro poster child
Jun 1, 2004
0
0
16
May 26, 2005
#20
  • May 26, 2005
  • #20
hotrodnut said:
The fact is . . . if you have the car in netural and the clutch out, the input shaft of the transmission will turn. The input shaft is geared directly to the cluster gear and it will turn too, therefore, the oil in the trans is getting splashed around and warmed up, although not up to the normal operating temp, it does help considerably warming up for a few mins for the initial drive off and gear shifts.
Click to expand...

Thats why I hang out mostly in "Talk"
 
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