4.6l v8 in 88 foxbody?

SVT32VDOHC · Aug 3, 2011

NikwoaC said:
Hell yea, I'm rolling on 5-lug spindles that you sold me.

Ahhh....that's what I sold you. I couldn't remember. I know I sold 1990Coupe his entire 5 lug and brakes system, but we talk all the time and we've hung out 4 times over holidays and my wedding. I sold Chris some interior stuff and you your spindles.

N8Dogg98 said:
I don't have much experience with pushrod 5.0's, but is it possible that part of the attraction to doing a 2V mod motor swap has to do with driveability?

A 2V PI mod motor w/ >10:1 compression, ported heads, and stage 2 N/A cams will lay down close to 300 RWHP and still exhibit excellent road manners. The mod motors run very smooth, even cammed they seem to run quite smooth and efficient making them very easy to drive even when heavily modified.

Would a 300 RWHP 5.0 pushrod also exhibit excellent road manners? No sarcasm/disrespect intended, I'm just curious

I've never H/C/I'd a 5.0 but multiple friends of mine have and they all said they don't have the idle and road manners as a 300rwhp modular car. They liked them better with the stock cam. Once the cam went in, they disliked the driveability.

N8Dogg98 · Aug 3, 2011

If that's the case, than I'd definitely prefer a mod motor in a fox over a pushrod 5.0. I want to enjoy driving my cars and have them be reasonably fast, rather than have a very fast car that isn't fun to drive.

You fox guys probably think my car is weak w/ 240 rwhp and 280 rwtq, but it is fun as hell to drive and it's very easy to live with on a daily basis despite having cams and loud exhaust.

NIKwoaC · Aug 3, 2011

N8Dogg98 said:
I don't have much experience with pushrod 5.0's, but is it possible that part of the attraction to doing a 2V mod motor swap has to do with driveability?

A 2V PI mod motor w/ >10:1 compression, ported heads, and stage 2 N/A cams will lay down close to 300 RWHP and still exhibit excellent road manners. The mod motors run very smooth, even cammed they seem to run quite smooth and efficient making them very easy to drive even when heavily modified.

Would a 300 RWHP 5.0 pushrod also exhibit excellent road manners? No sarcasm/disrespect intended, I'm just curious

What happens is %95 of pushrod guys over-cam and under-head their engines, which makes for mediocre power and poor drivability. For years, the market has been flooded with poor flowing aftermarket head/intake castings, so a lot of pushrod guys fall into that trap. This is what my engine build was all about. I put a baby cam and huge heads/intake on my car. It idles at 700 with a very very very slight lope, EASILY putts along in any gear at 1200 RPM, and pulls strong all the way to the limiter. It is very drivable. In fact, it's out in the parking lot right now, waiting to drive me home from work.

Mod motors have the advantage of very good flowing heads available from the factory and aftermarket, particularly the 4V stuff. With very good flowing heads and induction, the cam doesn't need to be aggressive, so even a "cammed" 4.6L often has very good drivability. This is the same reason LS engines get so much praise, they have very good heads/intake right from the factory.

In the end, it just comes down to how you build it, and SBF guys just have a little more homework to do to get it right, since there were never very many great head/intake stuff from the factory.

N8Dogg98 · Aug 3, 2011

^ good to know Nik, thanks

2000xp8 · Aug 3, 2011

SVT32VDOHC said:
I'm done with this arguement. It's full of haters. I've done it before, I know what's better and cooler. I know what gets people attention at car shows and what doesn't.

I don't think it's really hate.
I for one don't hate it, but again i wouldn't do it either.
Fox owners tend to want the most power out of their time, money and effort.
And the 4.6 2v doesn't really provide that. I think it's kinda cool, just not for me.

Nate, as far 2v 4.6's with h/c/i, price it out it's extraordinarily expensive just to get around 350rwhp. The head gaskets and heat bolts alone cost $500.
I agree with nik, half the combo's i see here are unproven mismoshes of parts, i'm a fan of going all out on the heads and keeping the cam a bit more conservative. Other than the idle, a well orchestrated combo can't be told from stock during regular driving and should make over 325rwhp.

N8Dogg98 · Aug 3, 2011

^ intake and head bolt kits are only $150 for the 4.6 2V

Also, using junkyard parts and a good set of cams one could build an 11:1 aluminum 2V engine w/ unported PI heads and make north of 300 RWHP for around $1500. Aluminum Mark VIII engines can be bought for $300 at the junk yard and have the -3 CC dish pistons as opposed to the -17cc dish of the PI piston, new cams are about $600, new valve springs $200, PI heads from a junk yard are < $300 and the bolt/gasket kit from FRPP is < $150. That's $1550 in parts and will net north of 300 RWHP and a very broad torque curve from 3500-6500 rpm's.

Sure you can spend big money on a N/A 4.6 build, but it isn't really necessary. Those parts listed above will provide a very driveable quite powerful combo.

I'm also assuming the engine doesn't need new bearings, new piston rings, chain guides/tensioners, because as we all know the 4.6 engine package is quite durable. Even so, that would add less than $500 to the total cost (assuming you did it yourself).

2000xp8 · Aug 3, 2011

N8Dogg98 said:
^ intake and head bolt kits are only $150 for the 4.6 2V

Also, using junkyard parts and a good set of cams one could build an 11:1 aluminum 2V engine w/ unported PI heads and make north of 300 RWHP for around $1500. Aluminum Mark VIII engines can be bought for $300 at the junk yard and have the -3 CC dish pistons as opposed to the -17cc dish of the PI piston, new cams are about $600, new valve springs $200, PI heads from a junk yard are < $300 and the bolt/gasket kit from FRPP is < $150. That's $1550 in parts and will net north of 300 RWHP and a very broad torque curve from 3500-6500 rpm's.

Sure you can spend big money on a N/A 4.6 build, but it isn't really necessary. Those parts listed above will provide a very driveable quite powerful combo.

I'm also assuming the engine doesn't need new bearings, new piston rings, chain guides/tensioners, because as we all know the 4.6 engine package is quite durable. Even so, that would add less than $500 to the total cost (assuming you did it yourself).

Nate, not sure where you are getting arp head bolts for that cheap, so i'll assume you are using stock tty bolts.
To get a set of arp's cost about 3 bills.

I put my entire modular engine together, trust me, gaskets and misc adds up extremely fast.
The rule with modulars is, put your price list together, then double it.

Re-ringing and doing bearings yourself on a modular engine is a recipe for doing it twice. You can do anything on a budget, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

N8Dogg98 · Aug 3, 2011

I was not talking about ARP fasteners. No reason to buy them unless you plan on taking the heads off more than once. The 4.6 cars don't have any head gasket issues that I know of

2000xp8 · Aug 3, 2011

N8Dogg98 said:
I was not talking about ARP fasteners. No reason to buy them unless you plan on taking the heads off more than once. The 4.6 cars don't have any head gasket issues that I know of

Ok, i can see that.
Would i use stock bolts? No, but i guess others would.

Never the less, you are still making it sound too easy, how about springs for the heads, degreeing the cams, necessary dyno tuning, and the ton of parts needed to swap it into a fox?

The TFS kit on a pushrod engine provides at least as much power and much more simplicity.

N8Dogg98 · Aug 3, 2011

^ like I said earlier, I'm not really familiar with the 5.0 pushrod engines. It's quite interesting what you and Nik said though about high flowing heads + mild cams > poor flowing heads + wild cams. I get the impression many pushrod 5.0 owners purchased parts that really didn't complement one-another.

NIKwoaC · Aug 3, 2011

N8Dogg98 said:
^ like I said earlier, I'm not really familiar with the 5.0 pushrod engines. It's quite interesting what you and Nik said though about high flowing heads + mild cams > poor flowing heads + wild cams. I get the impression many pushrod 5.0 owners purchased parts that really didn't complement one-another.

You considering picking up a Fox? I've seen you in the Fox section more frequently lately. You seem... Interested.

N8Dogg98 · Aug 3, 2011

Nope, I just love cars and enjoy learning new things. I'm in no position to buy another car because I don't have the room and I'll never let go of my '98.

2000xp8 · Aug 3, 2011

N8Dogg98 said:
^ like I said earlier, I'm not really familiar with the 5.0 pushrod engines. It's quite interesting what you and Nik said though about high flowing heads + mild cams > poor flowing heads + wild cams. I get the impression many pushrod 5.0 owners purchased parts that really didn't complement one-another.

The beauty of pushrod engines is there is a ton of parts, the negative of that though is nobody knows what to buy.
With OHC engines, there isn't much to choose from, couple sets of ported heads, few different cams, and one or 2 intakes, less for people to screw up.

I'm a little more fortunate than others with friends in the business, so i have gotten to see many failed projects and many successful ones.
My opinion, for a pushrod engine, spend every dime you have on the heads, and sort the rest out later, intakes and cams are easy to come by. Once you have the high ticket item the rest is chicken feed.

NIKwoaC · Aug 3, 2011

2000xp8 said:
My opinion, for a pushrod engine, spend every dime you have on the heads, and sort the rest out later, intakes and cams are easy to come by. Once you have the high ticket item the rest is chicken feed.

I kept typing different responses to expand on this, but none of them really added anything. I agree, haha.

screamin5oh · Aug 3, 2011

N8Dogg98 said:
If that's the case, than I'd definitely prefer a mod motor in a fox over a pushrod 5.0. I want to enjoy driving my cars and have them be reasonably fast, rather than have a very fast car that isn't fun to drive.

You fox guys probably think my car is weak w/ 240 rwhp and 280 rwtq, but it is fun as hell to drive and it's very easy to live with on a daily basis despite having cams and loud exhaust.

ok so here is the deal the guys who have problems with big cams on pushrod cars is because they dont tune it and match it to the parts, i pulled down 400 hp to the wheels in my 347 with a big cam big heads and big intake, it was tuned and ran and idled rock solid, nothing diff with a mod motor you need to tune it or it will run like **** like anything else, im not going to get into a pissing match with whats better a pushrod 5.0 or a 2v because you cannot compare a 2v to a pushrod 5.0 there are more options for the pushrod car and more power potential then a 2v, now 4v,3v motors is a diff store

N8Dogg98 · Aug 4, 2011

^ wasn't trying to get into a pissing match, just trying to learn something. Thanks

CarMichael Angelo · Aug 4, 2011

What happened to the OP? I mean asks the original "dumb" question decides to maybe put a JP motor in instead, and dissapears?

I think it's kind of funny though, if you can look at it metaphorically......

The dumb question is like a piece of meat, and we're all like Michael Vick's dogs fighting over it.

Meanwhile the OP is at an import yard looking for a Toyota motor to put in his car.

NIKwoaC · Aug 4, 2011

madmike1157 said:
Meanwhile the OP is at an import yard looking for a Toyota motor to put in his car.

Haha, and there's the punchline.

Rick 91GT · Aug 4, 2011

This was a intersting thread, Im glad I let it run its course before responding.

Im in the middle of my own little mod swap... I decided to go mod since my car was pretty empty and I could go anyway I wanted, plus the 4v modular will hold 1000hp on a stock alum Teksid block, with a stock forged cobra crank, aftermarket rods and pistons. I also wanted something a little different for advertisement for my business as well, it just gets more attention under the hood. The more I got into the modular stuff the more I accepted it was the future, plain and simple it is a better platform and I am a pushrod guy to the heart.

1990Coupe · Aug 4, 2011

SVT32VDOHC said:
haha...very true. I remember backing it out of the garage and getting out. You're like where you going? I tossed you the keys....look on your face = priceless.....

I was like... "wat".. haha

NikwoaC said:
Hell yea, I'm rolling on 5-lug spindles that you sold me.

My brakes and spindles are from SVT32V too! So are my axles. Only thing i didn't get from him concerning the brakes was the booster and MC. (and other misc small stuff). Infact, I still have the front rotors, and rear rotors and pads on the car that he sent me. lol.

Regardless, you can argue the pro's and con's of any and all swap done. Myself, i'd LOVE to do a 4v swap, especially after driving SVT's modfox last month. That car ran great, and sounded exotic. It was awesome.

4.6l v8 in 88 foxbody?

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