400RWHP + 20MPG... How to do it??

NUTCASE · Jul 23, 2005

89CopCoupe said:
First point to make is that a 400 horse car can be spanked by a 300 horse car ... power to weight ratio and good traction right

also, if the 300hp motor has a really flat power curve and the 400hp motor is all peak power

MeanMussy · Jul 23, 2005

NUTCASE said:
also, if the 300hp motor has a really flat power curve and the 400hp motor is all peak power

Yeah guys, I realize this.. but I was just setting goal. It was easier to quote a peak HP number than it was to draw a TQ curve and ask for a motor that can match it (I used to do that for a living, only w/ AC and DC motors.. its no fun. )

I just wanted to use the 400RWHP as a gauge. I could easily build a 20mpg motor at 150HP, but what fun would that be?

Scorcher2005 · Jul 23, 2005

like previously said, build a good strong n/a motor that can put down 300rwhp by itself. throw a s/c on top of this and stay out of boost (usually 3000rpm+). When you want the power, its there. Even vortech's bottom of the line v1 s-trim should put you at your goal. Good-luck. (by the way, i have similar goals w/ the combo in my sig, 20mpg but only 300rwhp)

NUTCASE · Jul 23, 2005

also, don't be afraid of a 331 or 347. tha extra low end torq will actually result in your motor requiring less effort to scoot you around at the lower rpm's

whats the use of overdriving the hell out of your setup if your motor does't have the part throttle low end to lug it down there. take away the torq, and you will actually bur more feul forcing the motor to work at an rpm that it is very innefficiant holding

MeanMussy · Jul 23, 2005

Scorcher2005 said:
like previously said, build a good strong n/a motor that can put down 300rwhp by itself. throw a s/c on top of this and stay out of boost (usually 3000rpm+). When you want the power, its there. Even vortech's bottom of the line v1 s-trim should put you at your goal. Good-luck. (by the way, i have similar goals w/ the combo in my sig, 20mpg but only 300rwhp)

Let me know what you get once all of the parts are installed.

LukeDaddy · Jul 23, 2005

Am I the only person that believes that 400whp can be made N/A?

Why not run an all motor setup with a stock crank, I beam rods, and hyper pistons to yield a nice, light rotating assembly, and run some AFR205s or Victor Jrs with an RPM II or Systemax intake and a nice FTI cam?

Top it off with some 36/42lb injectors, and a 255lph pump, along with an MSD setup, and you should be there...

Hell, Ed Curtis makes 325-345whp on a STOCK BOTTOM END with 165s, a cam, and a ported manifold of his choice on street cars all the time?

I would call Ed, at Flowtech Induction, and talk with him about a N/A Motor...

Throwing a supercharger/turbocharger in the mix will decrease the gas mileage... a N/A combo will ALWAYS get better mileage than a comparable boosted motor....

MeanMussy · Jul 23, 2005

I'm glad someone brought the question up... any comments?

95cobra50 · Jul 23, 2005

ls2 or 6

MeanMussy · Jul 23, 2005

95cobra50 said:
ls2 or 6

Not an option... My truck is a GM, but my car never will be!

NUTCASE · Jul 23, 2005

LukeDaddy said:
Am I the only person that believes that 400whp can be made N/A?

Why not run an all motor setup with a stock crank, I beam rods, and hyper pistons to yield a nice, light rotating assembly, and run some AFR205s or Victor Jrs with an RPM II or Systemax intake and a nice FTI cam?

Top it off with some 36/42lb injectors, and a 255lph pump, along with an MSD setup, and you should be there...

Hell, Ed Curtis makes 325-345whp on a STOCK BOTTOM END with 165s, a cam, and a ported manifold of his choice on street cars all the time?

I would call Ed, at Flowtech Induction, and talk with him about a N/A Motor...

Throwing a supercharger/turbocharger in the mix will decrease the gas mileage... a N/A combo will ALWAYS get better mileage than a comparable boosted motor....

are you talking on a 302.......I dobt it. you can get to 400hp no problem. but you won't have the tq at like 2000rpm that you need to see great milage. one of the reasons like engines like the LS7 can get like 30mpg out of 7.0 liters is the fact that it is very torqy, becouse of its cubes it can maintain better air velocity in the heads and intake. so when you are crusing at 2000rpm that motor is barely trying. and YES, I am implying that higher cube motors can posses the ability to yeild better gas milage.

as far as N/A vs boost for gas milage, it is possible for the n/a motor to get better milage becouse s/c's and turbos create a drag on the motor. however, I don't posses the technology and the resourses in my garage to make this happen. and it would also be very costly. it would be 1000000x easier to just take a 5oho motor in good condition and put a turbo on it. let the stock motors low end take care of the low end efficiency and let the turbo put up you top end dyno queen numbers for you

QDRHRSE · Jul 23, 2005

It's not hard to do. I can get just a little over 20mpg on the highway and I'm a little over 400rwhp. I have a simple combo and still have all of my emissions stuff working. As long as you don't get crazy with porting and use a sensible cam and gears almost any supercharged car can do it. If you stay light on the throttle its totally reasonable. My combo consists of a 306, gasket matched twisted wedge heads, gasket matched cobra intake, a crower cam similar to an e cam, 75mm throttle body, 80mm pro-m, novi 1000, shorty headers, high flow cats, 3.55's in the rear. On the highway during really long trips between LA and the bay area I have done substantially better than 20mpg traveling at 80- no more, no less- 80. Anybody who says this can't be done hasn't tried. Its a piece of cake. I haven't read all the other posts so I hope I'm not being redundant. A blower will be the easiest way to get good mileage.

Foxfan88 · Jul 23, 2005

Well yes vettes and stuff yeah but EXTREMELY HIGH PERFORMANCE ( like under 12sec E/Ts) and EXTREMELY HIGH FUEL ECONOMY (like 30+mpg) cannot coexist, and if it does then its ****ing expensive

Daggar · Jul 23, 2005

Sure... I get over 20MPG on the highway. In town... a completely different matter. I average between 10 and 11 in town for a normal work week.

Edit: I guess that my point is that there's going to be a trade off somewhere.

Dean85GT · Jul 23, 2005

NakedRaygun · Jul 23, 2005

Turbos actually help MPG, I think there is a guy at TM.com making 23 at ~500 rwhp...

bluevenom867 · Jul 23, 2005

Simple,a high VE at low rpm.Build a motor for lots of torque,low-mid rpm power,and use the EFI to keep the a/f ratio as lean as possable.Coated bearings and thermal coatings would be nice.Also,optimising the cam to get the most compression pressure while keeping the actual compression ratio low.And I would get a timing adjuster so you can change your ignition timing inside the car.

I know that can be done n/a,it just takes alot of though going into it.Of course,nitrous with a motor like this would be a sintch no make 500hp.

bluevenom867 · Jul 23, 2005

Remember that fuel is power,if you can make a turbo motor use less fuel than a n/a motor.

You just cant build a n/a motor...

MeanMussy · Jul 23, 2005

Daggar said:
Sure... I get over 20MPG on the highway. In town... a completely different matter. I average between 10 and 11 in town for a normal work week.

Edit: I guess that my point is that there's going to be a trade off somewhere.

Yep, I don't want an in town average of 20mpg, I'm just shooting for that on the highway. I KNOW, in town, I'm going to be on the skinny pedal and I'm fine w/ crap gas milage at that point.

MeanMussy · Jul 23, 2005

Foxfan88 said:
Well yes vettes and stuff yeah but EXTREMELY HIGH PERFORMANCE ( like under 12sec E/Ts) and EXTREMELY HIGH FUEL ECONOMY (like 30+mpg) cannot coexist, and if it does then its ****ing expensive

OK.. All I was saying is, this thread isn't about IF it can happen, it's about HOW it can happen w/ a 302/351W based motor, in a Fox body.

LukeDaddy · Jul 23, 2005

You guys are funny that say a high revving, naturally aspirated 306 wont make any torque...

Are you serious? Stock 5.0s are rated at 300fwtq... which is a pretty stout number from the factory... installing aluminum heads, a custom cam, and a properly matched intake manifold will definately not DECREASE the factory rating..

I dont know about you, but I drove a basically stock 5.0 for 4 years, and not much could keep up while I was on the gas... theres no way a built motor would be any less impressive on the street...

This guy isnt asking your opinions on whether or not he should try this... he stated in his first post HE IS going to do this, and wanted suggestions on how... All that he has gotten is why it shouldnt be done without a huge shot of the gas, or a nasty blower/turbo

400RWHP + 20MPG... How to do it??

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