Drivetrain 4r70w Internal Swap

[1badfifty]

Hello mustang people . I wanted to ask if anybody here ever did a internal swap from a 4r70w to a AOD ? My throttle valve (TV) cable snap and well you probably will know burnt my over drive band and the gears . So I heard of people doing it but wanted to see if its difficult or pretty basic


IG : 1badfifty

 

[Casper93Fox]

Yup did that to my AOD. You have to get the whole trans to do the internal swap. May be easier to just put the 4r70w and run a trans controller. Only way to get rid of the AOD TV cable is to run a CP manual VB. you can have it set-up in Auto with a TV cable only to set shift points. If not a high HP application just rebuild the AOD and add the 4R70W Direct drum with the diode and the AODE sunshell and good rebuild kit. Also HD input shaft with a non locking converter. If it is a 91-93 AOD it will already have the HD stamped steel drums that are the same as AODE and 4R70W. 91-93 AOD only need the direct drum and sunshell upgrade with HD input shaft to be as good as a 4R70W.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Yup did that to my AOD. You have to get the whole trans to do the internal swap. May be easier to just put the 4r70w and run a trans controller. Only way to get rid of the AOD TV cable is to run a CP manual VB. you can have it set-up in Auto with a TV cable only to set shift points. If not a high HP application just rebuild the AOD and add the 4R70W Direct drum with the diode and the AODE sunshell and good rebuild kit. Also HD input shaft with a non locking converter. If it is a 91-93 AOD it will already have the HD stamped steel drums that are the same as AODE and 4R70W. 91-93 AOD only need the direct drum and sunshell upgrade with HD input shaft to be as good as a 4R70W.

That is not the only way to control a 4r70w w/o a computer..

Transgo AOD3e ( like 215.00)

 

[1badfifty]

Yup did that to my AOD. You have to get the whole trans to do the internal swap. May be easier to just put the 4r70w and run a trans controller. Only way to get rid of the AOD TV cable is to run a CP manual VB. you can have it set-up in Auto with a TV cable only to set shift points. If not a high HP application just rebuild the AOD and add the 4R70W Direct drum with the diode and the AODE sunshell and good rebuild kit. Also HD input shaft with a non locking converter. If it is a 91-93 AOD it will already have the HD stamped steel drums that are the same as AODE and 4R70W. 91-93 AOD only need the direct drum and sunshell upgrade with HD input shaft to be as good as a 4R70W.

i have a 1993 mustang gt aod i would get the 4r70w and use it but dont want to deal with the computer but thing is will all the internal parts from the 4r70w fit the aod? like the oil pump the drum etc?

 

[Chuckman]

If you have a full 4r as a core, the only thing you should need from the aod is the case, the valvebody section, input shaft, and the output shaft (4r doesn't have provisions for the governor).

Check out clickclickracing.com, lots of good info there.

 

[Casper93Fox]

i have a 1993 mustang gt aod i would get the 4r70w and use it but dont want to deal with the computer but thing is will all the internal parts from the 4r70w fit the aod? like the oil pump the drum etc?

Perfect year for AOD. Same as me. You have all the HD internal parts except for the Direct drum and output shaft and input shaft. Direct drum is a must so is the input shaft. Direct drum with mechanical diode upgrade is needed. That is a 4R70W direct drum with mechanical diode and a 90-95 AODE sun shell. AOD direct drum is a weak point. 4R70W Output shaft is only needed when you are pushing over 600hp with slicks. Input shaft is the weakest link in an 1993 AOD.
Just rebuild what you have and add the 4R70W direct drum with Diode and replace the input shaft and get a converter with non lock-up in the 2500-300 stall range. You have the stamped steels drums and they are the same as the 4R70W. No need to spend the money for a whole parts tranny. I bought my direct drum off ebay. Brand new NOS parts. Got the sun shell off of ebay also. 150 bucks.
You will need to get the Sonnax HD servo kit and the newer 2-3 accumulator and a good valve body shift kit if you want to have the TV cable control pressure or a new reprogrammed valve body from one of the suppliers out there. If done properly the AOD will handle 550 HP all day long and you will not have to change a lot of stuff out. 4R70w will need a computer as the valve body is solenoid controlled for shift points. There are other details that will need to be addressed like shifter and driveshaft depending on what valvebody set-up you use. Click click racing is a good source for AOD info. Sometimes a little hard to follow what is written.

 

[Casper93Fox]

4R70W pump will not work on the AOD. Plus the fact all the parts in a used tranny are just that, used. Better to buy what you need new so you don't have any problems. Autos are very sensitive to used parts.

 

[Casper93Fox]

That is not the only way to control a 4r70w w/o a computer..

Transgo AOD3e ( like 215.00)

Technically the AODE is a 4R70W but not really when you are talking about solenoid driven valve bodies that need a computer. The AODE is a hybrid of AOD and early 4R70W upgrades.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

All I'm sayin is that I have a 4r70w. I have that valve body kit in my 4R70w. I do not have a computer controlling it. I shift it manually. to include 4th gear, and converter l/u.

To reiterate, there is more than one way to use a 4r70w w/o a computer besides sourcing a 500-700 valve body.

 

[1badfifty]

If you have a full 4r as a core, the only thing you should need from the aod is the case, the valvebody section, input shaft, and the output shaft (4r doesn't have provisions for the governor).

Check out clickclickracing.com, lots of good info there.

thank you !

 

[1badfifty]

Perfect year for AOD. Same as me. You have all the HD internal parts except for the Direct drum and output shaft and input shaft. Direct drum is a must so is the input shaft. Direct drum with mechanical diode upgrade is needed. That is a 4R70W direct drum with mechanical diode and a 90-95 AODE sun shell. AOD direct drum is a weak point. 4R70W Output shaft is only needed when you are pushing over 600hp with slicks. Input shaft is the weakest link in an 1993 AOD.
Just rebuild what you have and add the 4R70W direct drum with Diode and replace the input shaft and get a converter with non lock-up in the 2500-300 stall range. You have the stamped steels drums and they are the same as the 4R70W. No need to spend the money for a whole parts tranny. I bought my direct drum off ebay. Brand new NOS parts. Got the sun shell off of ebay also. 150 bucks.
You will need to get the Sonnax HD servo kit and the newer 2-3 accumulator and a good valve body shift kit if you want to have the TV cable control pressure or a new reprogrammed valve body from one of the suppliers out there. If done properly the AOD will handle 550 HP all day long and you will not have to change a lot of stuff out. 4R70w will need a computer as the valve body is solenoid controlled for shift points. There are other details that will need to be addressed like shifter and driveshaft depending on what valvebody set-up you use. Click click racing is a good source for AOD info. Sometimes a little hard to follow what is written.

thank you for the info ! saved me alot i searched alot and couldnt find any good answers !

 

[Casper93Fox]

No problem. I searched Click click racing too. The info is scattered about and in no particular order. You tube has the best info on this rebuild and swapped parts. I have been tuning my car for the last few weeks. But all indications are the swapped 4R70W parts in MY AOD work perfectly and it hits hard and feels good. Love the 1,2,3 shift and overdrive with the flip of a switch. This is the way the AOD should have been from the beginning.

 

[1badfifty]

No problem. I searched Click click racing too. The info is scattered about and in no particular order. You tube has the best info on this rebuild and swapped parts. I have been tuning my car for the last few weeks. But all indications are the swapped 4R70W parts in MY AOD work perfectly and it hits hard and feels good. Love the 1,2,3 shift and overdrive with the flip of a switch. This is the way the AOD should have been from the beginning.

do i need a subshell from a 90-95 Aode or can i use one from a 4r?? I want to get the 2" band to put in my aod

 

[Stroked88]

I am always a proponent of going full 4R70W whenever possible due to the easier electronic controls to control the shift points. I know going AOD with 4R70W internals is pretty good as well. I picked up this image a while back showing which parts to take from the 4R70W to put in t he AOD.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Can someone answer some questions? I sold my AOD car before I needed to rebuild it, but may need an auto again.

Why use a non lock up convertor? Can one be kept for highway mileage?
Is the 4R70 input shaft the HD one, or is there a specific place to order one for the AOD?
Which or all of these upgrades fix the out of and back into low to hold second shifting pattern and the resulting damage? Shift for D21, then a switch for OD sounds better.
Thanks.

 

[Chuckman]

Why use a non lock up convertor? Can one be kept for highway mileage?

With the hydraulic aod, the input shaft is actually two pieces, an inner and outer, with one being fluid coupled and one direct driven. Going to a "non-locking" converter also means going with a stinger, one-piece input. The 4r (and aode) use a "one-piece" shaft and a clutch inside the converter for a true lockup that can be triggered electronically.

Is the 4R70 input shaft the HD one, or is there a specific place to order one for the AOD?

There are aftermarket aod-specific shafts made of better materials (and the one piece), but they do not interchange with the 4r.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

@Chuckman "you da man!" Thanks for refreshing my memory with a clear, precise answer.
I am getting out of @1badfifty 's thread and wil head to the racing site. I just hate unorganized sources of info. @jrichker 's how to guides maybe do not spoil us, but they are extremely helpful. I really wish someone had put that kind of info together for my other cars. And I have factory shop manuals, assembly manuals and wiring books for them. Just the wiring pages I printed off here saved me plenty.

 

[1badfifty]

@Chuckman "you da man!" Thanks for refreshing my memory with a clear, precise answer.
I am getting out of @1badfifty 's thread and wil head to the racing site. I just hate unorganized sources of info. @jrichker 's how to guides maybe do not spoil us, but they are extremely helpful. I really wish someone had put that kind of info together for my other cars. And I have factory shop manuals, assembly manuals and wiring books for them. Just the wiring pages I printed off here saved me plenty.

Yeah they help me way more then a searching the internet with different unorganized information aha but yeah I started to rip apart my aod and the 4r70w but because of work making me have less time to work on it . which is sad

 

[Casper93Fox]

do i need a subshell from a 90-95 Aode or can i use one from a 4r?? I want to get the 2" band to put in my aod

U will need the one from a 90-95 AODE. Only one that will work.
The sun shell gear of the 4R is 27 teeth internal the AOD is 26. AODE sunshell is the only adapter 26 teeth and shorter length for the 4R Intermediate drum with Mech diode to AOD planetary gear and gearset. Unless you want to change out your perfectly good AOD ratio first gear set planetary for a lower unusable first gear of the 4R (if you are running 3:73 or higher) gears.
Go to utube and search for 4R70W rebuild. there is a series of 8 parts to the video. The internals are almost the same as the AOD. It will show you the parts you need and how to rebuild each drum and how to assemble it. Only part they left out was the Reverse band support snap ring. Make sure you put that back in the correct place in your AOD build.

 

[Casper93Fox]

With the hydraulic aod, the input shaft is actually two pieces, an inner and outer, with one being fluid coupled and one direct driven. Going to a "non-locking" converter also means going with a stinger, one-piece input. The 4r (and aode) use a "one-piece" shaft and a clutch inside the converter for a true lockup that can be triggered electronically.


There are aftermarket aod-specific shafts made of better materials (and the one piece), but they do not interchange with the 4r.

Chuck you are correct. One way to go is using a new one piece input shaft for the AOD and a custom non locking converter. There is another way. You buy a new input shaft for the AOD stock configuration and you can still get a non locking converter made special by Lentech, Performance Trans or Edge. just request it and tell them you are still running the two piece input shaft. keeps it very simple. HD input for stock set-up is 2 bills. Non locking converter will give you the stall speed you need over stock and keep you from breaking the internals of the trans when hard shifting at 5.5-6K. You can get a good converter for around 450-550 that will be nice and tight for the street but flash to your wanted stall speed when needed. There are many ways to go with the AOD. One piece shaft upgrade is recommended when you are pushing 600hp. If you have future plans for this HP target do the upgrade. If not stay with the stock setup and HD input for the two piece.