5.0 into early model look in here!

tommytorino · Jul 17, 2006

Hey Guys

From reading a lot of the avatars in here this swap is not all that uncommon. Just got a donor car <86 GT 5.0 & T-5 5-spd> and am about to "have at it".

First and most obvious problem I see is the oil pan. Ok, no big deal, replace the "H" pan with a front sump. Change the pickup along with it. However that creates the 2nd problem. No dipstick! If I recall the modern 5.0 has the dipstick tube in the pan, not the timing case cover. Can I drill the 5.0 timing case cover to accept a dipstick tube? Am I just better off buying a new "re-pop" one or a used one off say E-bay?

Lastly if I do change the timing case cover what should I look for on the new one? Meaning timing marks. I would like to keep the factory serp setup and crank pulley.

Thanks guys!!

Tommy D in NY

allcarfan · Jul 17, 2006

I have two oil pans if you need one. ONe is a stocker, the other is a 7qt chrome pan.

Cant help ya with the tech questions though.

reenmachine · Jul 17, 2006

allcarfan said:
I have two oil pans if you need one. ONe is a stocker, the other is a 7qt chrome pan.

Cant help ya with the tech questions though.

Hey -- if it's a front sump pan with a dipstick and he doesn't want it (the stocker) let me know what you want for it.

As for the tech questions, there are a couple of possible answers. First, you can put an early Mustang timing cover and water pump on the engine and then you'll have a dipstick and be able to put the stock early Mustang accessories, etc. on there. However, you mentioned that you want to retain the serpentine setup on the 5.0L, so you need to get a front sump pan with a dipstick tube. It looks like allcarfan can help with that. If not, the only source I know of is Total Performance at 586.468.3673; ask for Ron. It's not cheap, but he has everything you need.

red65 · Jul 17, 2006

You can drill the 5.0 timing cover to accept a front-mounted dipstick - there's even a boss cast into the cover that shows you where to put it. Just buy a Ford Racing (or the brand of your choice) dipstick and tube, drill the right sized hole (3/8", i think, but double check this before you break out the drill motor), and press the dipstick tube into it.

The "search" button will answer this question and more!

65conv50 · Jul 17, 2006

I mounted a tube on the side of the oil pan on mine. Had to fabricate the angle mounting bracket. The info from red65 sounds like a better idea to me.

tommytorino · Jul 17, 2006

Thanks for the info guys.

I had a feeling the late model cover could be drilled.

2 more questions as it sounds like you guys have gone through this before.

The 86 GT has a brand new rad in it. I would like to use it in the 65. That said the 65 bolts in typical of the early mustangs and the 86 is a "GM" style, so to speak.

So what do guys do to get the fox rad in an early car?

Oh and any ideas... choices on an alternator <1 wire?> for the swap.

Thanks

Tommy D

D.Hearne · Jul 17, 2006

One more thing to think about down the road: The 86 Stang 5.0 has E6SE heads. Good for bottom end torque, not good for upper rpm hp. 25 less than the later E7TE heads. And if you want to swap heads and go bigger on the cam, you'll have to tear it down and do a rebuild using pistons with valve reliefs, as the ones in it now have none. Reason for this is the E6 head's chambers are 1/8" deeper than all other small block heads. The chambers LOOK smaller, but they're not @ 68 cc's. One thing you can do to pep it up a bit is get out the die grinder and remove the thermactor bumps in the exhaust ports. Also would help to replace the rockers with 1.7 pedestal mount rockers. Drill your timing cover and plug the dipstick hole in the block with a wood dowel (it's not in the pan) Also use a Felpro 1 pc gasket with the front sump pan and use the 86 pan rail stiffeners and bolts. And do not toss the blue plastic studs that come with the gasket set, if you ever have to pull the pan in the car, you'll need em to put the gasket, pan and rail stiffeners back on.

tommytorino · Jul 17, 2006

D.Hearne

Thanks much for your post.

I know the engine was either rebuilt/replaced in this car. When I pull it out Ill hopefully find "E7" heads and a post 1986 motor.

The car is still speed density, with the "factory crushed" headders. With a set of 373's behind a recently remanned trans it pulled "fair" but not hard. So it could be infact a 86 motor.

I had a 86 GT new in the day. I remember it as fairly quick but you had to watch out for the 5.7l IROC Zs and you hid from Grand Nats!

Anyone have any info on the rad?

Tommy D

Rusty67 · Jul 17, 2006

There are people on stangnet that have made them fit. I don't think it looks very good. For 300 dollars you can have a custom built, aluminum raidator that will work/fit better than the 5.0 radiator and will look much nicer. If you don't have the money for the a new radiator I understand that, but the ones that are sold prefabricated are much more expensive and IMO not as good as one you get from a good custom radiator shop.

As for the dip stick issue, I would move it to the timing cover. I've done 2 5.0 conversions and comming up on my 3rd soon (this time gonna keep the EFI). The stupid dip stick in the side gets in the way when you are doing the headers and such. If you want to keep the dipstick where it is, you can just use a stock oil pan and cut down the end of the tube where it contacts the oil pan. It will work just fine from there, but again, its in the way.

tommytorino · Jul 17, 2006

Rusty67 said:
I've done 2 5.0 conversions and comming up on my 3rd soon (this time gonna keep the EFI).

Rusty, thanks for the advice.

Most likely I will do the bare-min at first. Meaning once the car gets rollingnad it actually starts, stops and goes forward and backwards Im trying to watch my budget.

Having done 2 1/2 of these swaps did you also do the T-5 conversion? After speaking to Modern Driveline they talked me into basically the "whole she-bang" to make the swap. Thats where the question comes in. They suggested a shorty headder to use with the cable mounted clutch system. Any thoughts, ideas on that issue? Guess what im really asking is do you have a model that fit real well? Keep in mind this is NOT a drag car and I would perfer a nice fit over monster 1 3/4" tubes if you get my drift!

Thanks guys

Tommy D

Rusty67 · Jul 18, 2006

What a coincidence. I used the Modern Drive line stuff when I put the T5 in my car. The other 5.0 I did in my friends Cougar was an AOD swap. And the EFI swap I'm working with my other friend on is an AOD as well.

I gota say, the Modern Driveline trans crossmember fit flawlessly. I also gota say that I think EVERY company who makes T5/AOD crossmembers over charges for them. I also used the MD cable clutch setup. It wasn't hard to install, but I had a hellish time geting my exhaust right. Is your car manual now or an auto ? Depending on what you got in your car already is really going to change what I think you should do, especially on a budget. Remember, you can always add that T5 later.

Shakin66 · Jul 18, 2006

I agree with all that was said on the dipstick issue but I would rather see you use a 1/8" freeze plug to block off the block's dipstick hole. Your local machine shop will have these and I used two of them sice the hole was plenty deep. Also check Darkhourse performance on the crossmember, he was the only guy with a 66'/T56 crossmember I could find and it was great.

D.Hearne · Jul 18, 2006

Rusty67 said:
As for the dip stick issue, I would move it to the timing cover. I've done 2 5.0 conversions and comming up on my 3rd soon (this time gonna keep the EFI). The stupid dip stick in the side gets in the way when you are doing the headers and such. If you want to keep the dipstick where it is, you can just use a stock oil pan and cut down the end of the tube where it contacts the oil pan. It will work just fine from there, but again, its in the way.

I don't understand how you managed to use a rear sump dipstick in a front sump pan. I know the Fox pan doesn't fit the old Stang suspension.

tommytorino · Jul 18, 2006

Rusty67 said:
Is your car manual now or an auto ? Depending on what you got in your car already is really going to change what I think you should do, especially on a budget. Remember, you can always add that T5 later.

The car the 5.0 is going into <65 Coupe 200 cid I-6 / 3-Spd> Looking for frame perches and mounts for a 66 as we speak. Im to understand the 65 V-8 mounts sit lower.

The donor motor trans I plan to keep together. The trans was rebuilt just recently and it has a new HD clutch.

Thanks much!!

Tommy D

reenmachine · Jul 18, 2006

Shakin66 said:
I agree with all that was said on the dipstick issue but I would rather see you use a 1/8" freeze plug to block off the block's dipstick hole. Your local machine shop will have these and I used two of them sice the hole was plenty deep. Also check Darkhourse performance on the crossmember, he was the only guy with a 66'/T56 crossmember I could find and it was great.

I think it's 3/8"....and a metal plug is definitely better than a wood dowel. If you end up calling Total Performance (I posted the number above) they sell the plugs for 50 cents.

tommytorino · Jul 18, 2006

reenmachine said:
I think it's 3/8"....and a metal plug is definitely better than a wood dowel. If you end up calling Total Performance (I posted the number above) they sell the plugs for 50 cents.

Agreed, I have seen that wood dowl blow on on a I/O boat engine. What a huge mess!

Hey, E-Bay/Used parts aside if I purchase new <and I assume you can get re-pop new> frame mounts for the V-8 are they all like 1966? Meaning the engine will sit about 1" higher? Im thinking it will give me more exhaust clearence.

Thanks

Tommy D

Shakin66 · Jul 18, 2006

Yea, thats right 3/8"...Its been a long day.

red65 · Jul 18, 2006

Shakin66 said:
Yea, thats right 3/8"...Its been a long day.

Gents -- it's actually 1/8" NPT (National Pipe Thread), which measures something like 3/8" across. You can run a 1/8"NPT tap into the existing dipstick tube hole on the side of the block and it'll take a thread (not a great one since it's not quite the right diameter for a 1/8"NPT thread, but good enough.) Go to Home Depot or the plumbing supply vendor of your choice and get a 1/8" NPT plug. You'll find that a 3/8" NPT plug is enormous and not what you want.

Carnivore · Jul 18, 2006

There's a kit you can buy from jegs here that includes all the oil stuff.. pan, pickup, new timing cover, & dipstick. I just gone one but havent put it on my block yet.

tommytorino · Jul 18, 2006

Carnivore said:
There's a kit you can buy from jegs here that includes all the oil stuff.. pan, pickup, new timing cover, & dipstick. I just gone one but havent put it on my block yet.

Man, is it just me or is that price pretty darn steep for what I suspect contains a leaky chrome oil pan for starters?

No offence intended, just never ever had any luck with chrome oil pans.

Tommy D

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