50 vs z28
- Thread starter 873Stang
- Start date
90_Red_LX
Member
I took a a4 ls1 out on the highway from 50mph kicks with rpm, gears, full exhaust, 65 tb, 70 maf, cai, and some hard ass driving. 1st kick was a half car, 2nd was a car to the top of 4th. That setup ran a 13.8 with a 2.0 60', had more in it, but never got it down. 8.7 @ 81 (I think 1/8th best.)
The h/c/i 306 I have now ran a 12.6 @ 110, which would be more than capable of destroying said ls1, and it has a 6 speed swap now. And there still was timing left on the table, along with traction. The same motor setup now with a little suspension , tires, and a hard ass launch I'm shooting for 11's.
The h/c/i 306 I have now ran a 12.6 @ 110, which would be more than capable of destroying said ls1, and it has a 6 speed swap now. And there still was timing left on the table, along with traction. The same motor setup now with a little suspension , tires, and a hard ass launch I'm shooting for 11's.
Here we go again... I give up... The same **** coming from the same people again and again. Bolt-on foxes can't beat an LS1? Christ, a well-optioned 5.0 ran low 14s new. Mine went 14.2@98. Is it impossible to believe that you can't make that car run a second quicker? Typical stock LS1s go mid 13s, and a couple have dipped into the 12s. A couple of foxes dipped into the 13s.
Bob Cosby's bolt-on mustang went 12.5s.
All of you who can't make a fox-body run, spend the dough. Buy the LS1. Sell the fox, and never look back. My vette is a great car. It's quick for stock, and it's fun to drive, the girls love it way way more than the fox. I honestly believe that the LSx may be the best mass produced performance engine from the factory ever. Internet lore seems to indicate that you might as well just retire the fox to grocery getter duties, but I know because I've seen it first hand that line of thinking is bunk.
If you're just competing with stock LS1s and you've got a H/C/I fox, you probably didn't do your homework when you selected your parts and screwed up somewhere. Stock LS1s, besides the look on their owner's faces, weren't really even fun to run with my H/C/I fox. I wish my buddy with the '02 1LE Z28 was around to tell you about our races. He went to West Point with me at the time, and I used to absolutely cream him - the famous LS1 3rd gear roll-on and all. I thought it was funny because I watched him post the "Who will win" thread on LS1.com, and I watched everyone explain how slow foxes were. A couple of people told him to be careful, but others criticized them. Stock he went 13.2@109 while I went a best of 11.9@113. Then after he got tired of losing to a decade older car, my '92, he went and put a cam, headers, and a chip w/ tune in it, went from 311 rwhp to just over 400 rwhp, and how do you think he ran? Terrible because he couldn't hook. He still ran only mid-12s. His car was 3400 lbs from the factory, mine was 350lbs lighter and made about 80 less rwhp and beat him through the 1/4 everytime. I was trapping 112-113, and he trapped 116-117, but always ran slower ETs. At that point, it was a decent race, but his car still couldn't hook like mine did and never ran me down. I knew better to race from a roll, but the point of the story is that there's a lot more to racing than power, especially on the street. After his cam and tune, he had as much in his motor as I had in mine. The headers for LS1s were, and maybe still are, expensive - like $1200. The cam was something like $1500 installed, and the tune was roughly $500. Plus they did a couple other minor bolt-ons and labor.
So give up on the fox and go get your LS1. Don't be surprised, though, when a mildly modded fox comes rollin' your way and does to you what you couldn't do. I sick of explaining it. From now on, I'll just bite my lip and continue to demonstrate.
Chris
Bob Cosby's bolt-on mustang went 12.5s.
All of you who can't make a fox-body run, spend the dough. Buy the LS1. Sell the fox, and never look back. My vette is a great car. It's quick for stock, and it's fun to drive, the girls love it way way more than the fox. I honestly believe that the LSx may be the best mass produced performance engine from the factory ever. Internet lore seems to indicate that you might as well just retire the fox to grocery getter duties, but I know because I've seen it first hand that line of thinking is bunk.
If you're just competing with stock LS1s and you've got a H/C/I fox, you probably didn't do your homework when you selected your parts and screwed up somewhere. Stock LS1s, besides the look on their owner's faces, weren't really even fun to run with my H/C/I fox. I wish my buddy with the '02 1LE Z28 was around to tell you about our races. He went to West Point with me at the time, and I used to absolutely cream him - the famous LS1 3rd gear roll-on and all. I thought it was funny because I watched him post the "Who will win" thread on LS1.com, and I watched everyone explain how slow foxes were. A couple of people told him to be careful, but others criticized them. Stock he went 13.2@109 while I went a best of 11.9@113. Then after he got tired of losing to a decade older car, my '92, he went and put a cam, headers, and a chip w/ tune in it, went from 311 rwhp to just over 400 rwhp, and how do you think he ran? Terrible because he couldn't hook. He still ran only mid-12s. His car was 3400 lbs from the factory, mine was 350lbs lighter and made about 80 less rwhp and beat him through the 1/4 everytime. I was trapping 112-113, and he trapped 116-117, but always ran slower ETs. At that point, it was a decent race, but his car still couldn't hook like mine did and never ran me down. I knew better to race from a roll, but the point of the story is that there's a lot more to racing than power, especially on the street. After his cam and tune, he had as much in his motor as I had in mine. The headers for LS1s were, and maybe still are, expensive - like $1200. The cam was something like $1500 installed, and the tune was roughly $500. Plus they did a couple other minor bolt-ons and labor.
So give up on the fox and go get your LS1. Don't be surprised, though, when a mildly modded fox comes rollin' your way and does to you what you couldn't do. I sick of explaining it. From now on, I'll just bite my lip and continue to demonstrate.
Chris
jhonda
Member
The ls1's could be had for 22k in '98. Particularly the 1LE package.
jhonda - Those stock times are not impressive at all for the ls1. I have been around several of each and raced/drove several of each. You are going to need h/c/i to actually compete or beat an ls1, and not do any weight saving mods.
Driver vs. Driver, LS1 > Bolt-On Fox.
No, God did not make the ls1
But, from the factory there is no need to compare in my opinion.
So your saying most ls1 cars run in the 12s stock??? cause the 13.4 second ls1s I mentioned above are stock. My car with I think 800 dollors worth of mods(pulleys,maf&intake tube, and exhaust) ran a 13.4 at 100mph with some drag radials.
ill advised
Member
That's the beauty of drag racing: you have to earn it as a driver as well. In that sense I like what jhonda is saying. It's not enough to simply have more power. If they get out-driven that's their problem. lol Nevermind what the car is supposed to do...what can you do with it? Admittedly some of those times are pretty bad but hey, we can't all be Evan Smith. I personally wasn't comfortable until I got the hci on there, why? Because I wanted to outrun them from the bottom to the top. After taking down a couple 6-speeds on a closed course in Mexico, I was pretty much satisfied. Not that I stopped modding but the main core of my combo is about 10 years old now. 
That is until I'm ready for a complete rebuild. lol I'll admit, I'm a big fan of the LS1 cars. Had alot of good battles against them. I like playing the underdog role even more.
That is until I'm ready for a complete rebuild. lol I'll admit, I'm a big fan of the LS1 cars. Had alot of good battles against them. I like playing the underdog role even more.
I guess I am one of the same people.
I guess I am different than most of these point A to point B race outcomes. Jumping ahead in the race from the start but being pulled on like mad at the end, does not count as a win to me
I have NOT seen a bone stock (no weight reduction/timing bumps) run in the 13s EVER.
I am not an E.T. guy. To me a 13.4 car that traps 104 mph is slower than a 13.5 car that traps 109-110.
Weight reduction, traction, very ideal track conditions, sea level, air pressure, great and experienced driver. Why compare that to the "average"?
You can have an ls1 for 8-10k.
I would never retire a fox.
The "homework" you refer to is a little off. Not everyone has the money to buy the "best" stuff. Not everyone wants to gut any of the interior. Not everyone has performance as their sole goal.
The header prices have went down a bit. He should have installed the cam himself
If I had a stock 6 spd ls1, I would not worry about a "bolt-on" fox.
By bolt-on, I mean external.
Anyways, I do not have much time to disagree
I do respect your opinion though
Very nice man
110 mph...What is your race weight?
Was anything else done between the 306 and your old times besides the rebuild?
What is your compression?
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