5000 to spend need help

[gunnerdog]

OK I got a 351W that is showing signs of compression loss. An FMX delivering the power out to the wheels. I want more fun out of the car and honestly hate the FMX and want a manual. Should I stroke out the engine to 393, 408, or 427? Or should I get rid of the FMX and try to put a T-56 on boad. Need you thoughts on this. Has anybody gone any of the routes that can give me advise? So lets hear what you guys have to say.

 

[TOM B]

I would buy a stroker kit but wouldnt go wild with it, leave room in the cylinder wall for the next rebuild, about $1400
Then I would buy a Edelbrock RPM head kit with manifold,cam lifter for about $1500
save about $700 for small parts like oil pan, arp bolts, gaskets. headers.
Then go find a good used 4 speed you want and get the clutch, flywheel and all mounting hard ware like pedals and stuff, save alot of your bucks and get a C4 from TCI with a reverse manual valve body so you can shift at about
$1000. Add a 2500 stall B&M converter at about $300 for that allsome tire smoke you know you want. I do most of my own work so I wont add machine shop or labor.
You dont have to buy new heads and manifold but the stroker kit and cam stuff is a must.
5000 wont last long so dont go hog wild here. another 2000 will make this easy.r

 

[69gmachine]

You can see my mods in my signature. I went with a 5 speed and would do it again. This will never again be a daily driver on the highways, so one good overdrive gear is sufficient. The power from a stout 408 is incredible. However, if you don't put good heads on it, you're wasting your time. So many choices, so little time.

 

[dennis112]

I too would go with a 408 stroker and some decent heads.
Got to love all that torque!

The tranny would be nice too.

What rear gear are you running? There maybe something to gain there too. . . .



69gmachine--Did you make it to the track this year and what times did you get?

 

[67Dylan]

Gunner: What current heads/cam/intake/carb are you running? It's REALLY hard to complete a motor rebuild w/in your $$ confines if you don't do 95% of the work. Even then, a few 'key' parts are a must to keep w/in budget.

If you have stock HCI (Heads/Cam/Intake) then I'd rebuild the 351 buy good heads & intake, new carb, tranny (it's up to you on either a manual or auto), and go w/an Ed Curtis custom cam and call it. As Dennis pointed out, go w/some gears; they are the best bang for the buck for straight line acceleration.

 

[gunnerdog]

Hey guys this is great. Currently I have a Edelbrach intake and holley 650 carb, headers and the rest is pretty much stock. I also have a stock open rear. Not sure the gear ratio. Not a real engine expert and want to do it right so thanks for the help. Has any bady swaped to a manual from an auto and what were the cost?

 

[Max Power]

I was able to build a 393 stroker with the Edelbrock RPM kit, including heads, for about $4000. I had a shop rebuild my FMX for about $800. It's a lotta fun.

 

[Spoofty]

It was back in about 97 when I put a T5 in mine. But this is what I can remeber.
Used T5 $450 came with clutch
Flywheel $120
Shorter drive shaft $90
Clutch pedal from swapmeet $45
I made my own cross member and modified the pedal to use a cable setup.
After melting too many cables with my headers I went through about 6 different hydralic setups.
Then I decided that I would strock a 351 and put that in and I went back to auto as the T5 would probably not handle it.

 

[67Dylan]

I was able to build a 393 stroker with the Edelbrock RPM kit, including heads, for about $4000. I had a shop rebuild my FMX for about $800. It's a lotta fun.

That's not a bad price, but you did all the work yourself too That is the only way to do it IMO. If he has to pay for shop labor... that's gonna eat right thru 5K$ and not leave enough for anything more than the stroker kit.

If that's the most you can come up w/then why not rebuild the 351 w/alum heads, better exhaust, rebuilt tranny or t56 tranny, and an Ed Curtis cam? <--- He'll custom grind a custom cam to fit your needs. It'll be the best 350$ you'll spend IMO. The advice is only valid if most current internals can be reused If you have to buy almost all new internals you might as well stroke it cause the cost is close enough IMO to justify the extra coin.

 

[69gmachine]

I too would go with a 408 stroker and some decent heads.
Got to love all that torque!

69gmachine--Did you make it to the track this year and what times did you get?

Yep, made it to the track, but it was a road course (MCA 30th at Barber Motorsports Park) not a drag strip. I don't know if anyone was keeping track of lap times, or even how to assess what was good or bad, but I had an absolute blast! My engine didn't fair too well though. I only got to run one full session and half another before all the intake pushrods on the passenger side bent like pretzels. I paid a local "engine builder" to build this engine because I had $10K just in parts and didn't want to risk screwing it up. He's already out of business and skipped town. I have built a half dozen small block Ford engines, but all have been relatively mild in comparison with a stock bottom end, hyd flat tappet cam, small 4 barrel and headers, but nothing nearly so radical as this 408 stroker. I don't know what went wrong for sure, but after tear down the pistons look fine. I'll put in a new cam, roller lifters, and push rods, and be back on the road before Christmas. The good news was how well the suspension did. I designed the front coil over suspension myself. There is almost no bump steer to speak of, and it will be a while before I can drive well enough to find the car's limit.

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread.

 

[S-Car-Go]

Forget the motor for now.. I know, doesn't sound like fun, but a 427 with an open rear end and stock gears = zzzz.

Get a posi, gears (3.55-3.90), do the T5 conversion with a cable clutch (I recomend Mustang Steve's), fix the exhaust to go around the T5, then look at what you have left over for engine upgrades. Even your stock worn out 351 will be 10x more fun than doing it the other way around. And you'll be set up to do the motor right when the time comes.

 

[gunnerdog]

But will that T-5 be able to handle the power out of the engine or future upgades? I Plan on get the traction lock put in soon. Sould I go all out on a good t-56 or do the stroker and finish later? I still have the problem of finding a clutch pedal.

 

[67Dylan]

But will that T-5 be able to handle the power out of the engine or future upgades? I Plan on get the traction lock put in soon. Sould I go all out on a good t-56 or do the stroker and finish later? I still have the problem of finding a clutch pedal.

No that t5 will grenade itself at some point; maybe when you're just putting along and not beating on it. It will fail quicker when you put some sticky tires to it. I'd upgrade tranny's... might as well follow what s car go suggested.

How do you know the motor is tired: have you done a compression check or by the butt-o-meter?

 

[65ShelbyClone]

OK I got a 351W that is showing signs of compression loss. An FMX delivering the power out to the wheels. I want more fun out of the car and honestly hate the FMX and want a manual. Should I stroke out the engine to 393, 408, or 427? Or should I get rid of the FMX and try to put a T-56 on boad.

This is my personal opinion and thus the following is how I would do it.

With a $5000 budget, I highly doubt you will get a T56 and a decent stroker. One or the other, but probably not both. A new T56 and ancilliary parts will be in the $2500 range. A cast steel 393 crank alone will be in the $400 range, pistons also ~$400, and you get to keep your stock rods. Factor in some heads that can handle 393+ inches and that's another $1300. Cam, $200. Intake, $250. Thats $50 over budget already and doesn't include machine work, headers, rockers, pushrods, driveshaft, clutch pedal conversion(a PITA, ask me), etc.

I personally would look at a manual conversion and building the 351W. A Tremec 3550 costs less than a T56 and you'll pick up power just from a manual tranmission over the FMX. If you keep the auto, you might consider a C4, but I'm not an automatic expert or anything. If you haven't done a compression/leakdown test already, do it.

 

[S-Car-Go]

Yep, looks like a G-Force T5, Tremmec or T56 is in your future. What about your rear end? Time for a 9" upgrade?

I agree with 65ShelbyClone, but you can keep going on the spending.. If you're looking at a 393, you're looking at big hp. Stock 3/8" fuel lines are good to ~350-400hp. A healthly 393 aint going to get fed with a stock fuel system. Better plan on new fuel lines, electric pump, regulator, and of course carb.

It all adds up quickly. Plan it out and chip away.

 

[57fairlane]

A cast steel 393 crank alone will be in the $400 range, pistons also ~$400, and you get to keep your stock rods. Factor in some heads that can handle 393+ inches and that's another $1300. Cam, $200. Intake, $250. Thats $50 over budget already and doesn't include machine work, headers, rockers, pushrods, driveshaft, clutch pedal conversion(a PITA, ask me), etc.

My build-up of 393 cost a little less . . . but that is probably a regional situation as far as cost and availability.

I picked up a 84 block and the football rods for $100
Probe 302 dished pistons $340*
Used SCAT 9000 crank and bearings $225 (I know it was a steal)
ARP rod bolts on EBAY $35*
EBAY studs/girdle $75*
Total seal rings $80*
Machine work to block and balance $550

*prices include shipping

So in total the shortblock set me out ~$1405

I personally would look at a manual conversion and building the 351W. A Tremec 3550 costs less than a T56 and you'll pick up power just from a manual tranmission over the FMX.

I whole-heartedly agree with the 3550 . . . A mild 351 won't need a TKO and I hate t-5s so really there isn't anything left.

If you blow up the 3550 (Which I doubt) you can upgrade to TKO specs as it shares the same case. If you blow up the "G-farce" t5 you are still left with a junk case.

 

[mikemustang289]

I'd go with the G-force t-5 and probably get the upgraded mainshaft as well. Highly doubt you'd be able to break it with an N/A 408. They are rated at around 600hp and I have seen many high 9/Low 10 second cars running the G-force gearset.

Overbuilding is nice, but you'll be spending a lot more money. 5 grand isn't enough to set up an entire combo (engine/trans/rear) Plan it out on paper, run it by everyone on different forums, then take one step at a time.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

1.) So in total the shortblock set me out ~$1405....


2.)if you blow up the 3550 (Which I doubt) you can upgrade to TKO specs as it shares the same case. If you blow up the "G-farce" t5 you are still left with a junk case.

1.) That further supports my position that a stroker and a T56 will cost more than $5000. $2500 T56 swap + $1400 shortblock + $1300 heads = $5200 and no room for incidental parts.

2.) Right. The G-Force internals alone are something like $1300+ and you're left with a trans that can't be upgraded any further and might break anyway. A 3550 swap can be done with good parts for $1300-2000, is at least as capable as a G-Force, and can be upgraded to TKO specs like you said. I also forgot that a T56 is one hell of a big transmission. Even a '69 chassis may need tunnel work to make it fit whereas a 3550 doesn't need a bigger tunnel, at least not in '67+ cars. I hear it's a tight fit, though.

 

[67Dylan]

Only problem w/the 3550 it has to be used or maybe a dealer has one laying around; TTC quit making them.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/TR-3550.asp