8.8 fitment in 66?

D.Hearne · Jul 8, 2006

wildstang said:
D.Hearne I don't know how that happened but I have 92 ranger with factory 4.0 V6 and 8.8 and a 91 explorer and I have measured them and there is definitely a difference in width. The front 4x4 front seemed the same because I couldn't really measure any difference.

I think the ranger station is a good source for some of these questions, especially the tech libriary, there is a lot of write up on these rears and identification. I actually have a 92 explorer rear out back, I will try and measure it for offset.

I don't know why either, but I know both the original 89 7.5 rear and the 90 8.8 I replaced it with were the same width. The 94 Explorer? It could have been different, now that I think back, but if it was, it wasn't by much. In any case I had it narrowed to 52" axle to axle to fit 15x10 aluminum slots under the Ranger bed.

xoxbxfx · Jul 8, 2006

for prices..I think the 8.8 could be cheaper. Here locally there is a guy with a fox 8.8 disc to disc for $150. Im payin 150 to narrow the housing and getting fox axles for like $20 each. So free housing and brakes + $190 and I have a 99+ rear in my car.

tommytorino · Jul 8, 2006

xoxbxfx said:
After HOURS of research heres what I have come up with...

When using standard 94+ wheels and 8.8 in a stang here is the following of what you want to do

87-93 = GOLDEN

Can I ask why you left out the 85-86 Fox Mustangs?

Going to look at an 86 GT for a donor car tomorrow. It sure would be nice to steal the entire drive line out of it for my 65 Coupe.

What are you guys useing to cut off those thick "ears" off the diff? I have torches but fear what all that heat will do to an assembled diff. Also have a cutoff wheel but figure thats the slow way for sure.

Ideas??

Tommy D

Rebelgd · Jul 8, 2006

tommytorino said:
Ok Ill bite.... 8.8 has an offset pinion.... how did you align the rear in your car?

Im looking to perhaps use a fox mustangs 8.8 in a 65. I understand the 8.8 will be wider, but I seem to recall the pinion is offset.

Man, what I would give for a step by step somewhere on the net for this swap!
Thanks

Tommy D in NY

I had posted this some time ago in another forum, I hope you all find it useful:

Alright...here it is folks. I found someone who has done our homework for us. Go to MustangSteve's FYI page and do a search for "ford project". Look for posts by Dave Robins 4V starting with (introduction) and ending with (day 9). The link to the FYI page is:
http://members.boardhost.com/MustangSteve/index.html?1144079180

Happy moding!
Reb

tommytorino · Jul 8, 2006

Reb

East Islip NY here.... thanks for the link!!

Tommy D

Rebelgd · Jul 8, 2006

My pleasure...
I'm in Coram...right off 112...good to meet ya neighbor!

Reb

xoxbxfx · Jul 8, 2006

tommytorino said:
Can I ask why you left out the 85-86 Fox Mustangs?

Going to look at an 86 GT for a donor car tomorrow. It sure would be nice to steal the entire drive line out of it for my 65 Coupe.

What are you guys useing to cut off those thick "ears" off the diff? I have torches but fear what all that heat will do to an assembled diff. Also have a cutoff wheel but figure thats the slow way for sure.

Ideas??

Tommy D

sorry...they should work, 79-93 has the same suspension. Im just used to sayin 87-93

tommytorino · Jul 8, 2006

Thats Cool, I just had to ask.

I could be wrong, but me-thinks the 84 to 79 cars sports the 7.5" rear.

Thanks

Tommy D

xoxbxfx · Jul 8, 2006

tommytorino said:
Thats Cool, I just had to ask.

I could be wrong, but me-thinks the 84 to 79 cars sports the 7.5" rear.

Thanks

Tommy D

hell, i dunno... I know the 8.8 didnt come out till like 83 or something like that.

66Runt · Jul 9, 2006

After reading that thread on the MS site, I wouldn't use an Explorer 8.8

Rebelgd said:
I had posted this some time ago in another forum, I hope you all find it useful:

All that work and effort to install a pig of a differential. No thank you!
I didn't weigh the Fox body 8.8, but it can't be any where near 200 lbs. I picked up the completed axle assembly with the whole disc brake package, and carried it over and sat in on my floor jack. I'd think more like 160-170 lbs. That's a big difference in unsprung weight.
After reading all the work he went through, and seeing how heavy it is. I'm glad I used the Fox rear end.
Much easier.

xoxbxfx · Jul 9, 2006

66Runt said:
All that work and effort to install a pig of a differential. No thank you!
I didn't weigh the Fox body 8.8, but it can't be any where near 200 lbs. I picked up the completed axle assembly with the whole disc brake package, and carried it over and sat in on my floor jack. I'd think more like 160-170 lbs. That's a big difference in unsprung weight.
After reading all the work he went through, and seeing how heavy it is. I'm glad I used the Fox rear end.
Much easier.

im with you on that!!

tommytorino · Jul 9, 2006

66Runt said:
I'm glad I used the Fox rear end.
Much easier.

Ok, I got to ask, why was the Fox one easier? Was it because the center "section" is NOT offset on the Fox diff, like the one the fellow used?

What about shock mounts when useing the 8.8 <fox> in a 65-66?

Lastly what did you use to cut the ears off the diff? Im hesitant to torch them off <diff is assembled> and one would think a sawzall or angle grinder would take FOREVER!

Thanks much!

Tommy D

xoxbxfx · Jul 9, 2006

tommytorino said:
Ok, I got to ask, why was the Fox one easier? Was it because the center "section" is NOT offset on the Fox diff, like the one the fellow used?

What about shock mounts when useing the 8.8 <fox> in a 65-66?

Lastly what did you use to cut the ears off the diff? Im hesitant to torch them off <diff is assembled> and one would think a sawzall or angle grinder would take FOREVER!

Thanks much!

Tommy D

man... LOTS of reasons to use a fox over explorer...

Explorer has offset center section
wrong width for 65-66

Fox ones sorta pop right in. Just cut off all the ears for the shock mounts upper and lower control arms and weld in the leaf springs. The only real benefit I see with an explorer is the fact it has 31spline axles.

To cut off the ears, use a cutoff wheel on a grinder or radiac. It sucks but it doesnt take THAT long. I have a plasma cutter and would rather use a cutoff wheel. Cut it as close as possible and grind down the rest. I think it took me an hour to cut and grind all the ones off mine.

tommytorino · Jul 9, 2006

xoxbxfx said:
I think it took me an hour to cut and grind all the ones off mine.

Thanks.... Ill time myself!

Oh I assume custom "U" bolts as the 8.8 is mucho thicker then my IC rear.

Used stock shock plates?

Thanks again.

Tommy D

xoxbxfx · Jul 9, 2006

tommytorino said:
Thanks.... Ill time myself!

Oh I assume custom "U" bolts as the 8.8 is mucho thicker then my IC rear.

Used stock shock plates?

Thanks again.

Tommy D

I widened the holes in the shock mount plate and got some ubolts at Napa. They are 3" diameter I believe and way to long but they work. You can always cut them down length wise. They were $5 each but hey, they are plated and shouldnt rust. I actually have some extra ubolts you can have if you want. I got a leaf spring kit from Dallas Mustang and it comes with new ubolts. I couldnt use them because they were to short (width was right, just to short). I did the Opentracker leaf spring mod and have 6 leafs and they were to short. If I had stock leafs, they would work.

If you want them, let me know. Im sure I could USPS them to you for less than $5

tommytorino · Jul 9, 2006

Wow... nice offer!

Ill check my plates and see how much meat is on them. By that I mean this is a 6-cyl <4-Lug> car and Im not sure if there is a major difference in the leaf springs <other then total number and rate>

Might as well bounce another question off ya. The entire driveline <5.0/T-5/8.8> will be comming from the same 86 GT. Any idea how short/long the driveshaft will be? Cant use my 6-CYL shaft for sure!

Thanks again.

Tommy D

96 DOHC Cobra · Jul 9, 2006

tommytorino said:
Ok, I got to ask, why was the Fox one easier? Was it because the center "section" is NOT offset on the Fox diff, like the one the fellow used?

What about shock mounts when useing the 8.8 <fox> in a 65-66?

Lastly what did you use to cut the ears off the diff? Im hesitant to torch them off <diff is assembled> and one would think a sawzall or angle grinder would take FOREVER!

Thanks much!

Tommy D

I don't think the Fox axle is any easier to use. It is a little heavier, if that's a concern, but so are extra leafs, big tires, and a huge speaker box in the trunk. The Explorer rear is a better option for 65-66 Mustangs. It's eaier and cheaper to modify to fit these cars. The Fox rear fits so-so. In order for it to fit properly, it would have to be narrowed, have a lot of bracketry cut off, and require custom axles. The Explorer rear only requires cutting one side (the long side) to match the short side and use two stock short axles, and relocating the spring pads. I'd recommend converting to 9" housing ends on either axle, though. It'll add some expense but make the rear stronger and safer.

xoxbxfx · Jul 9, 2006

96 DOHC Cobra said:
I don't think the Fox axle is any easier to use. It is a little heavier, if that's a concern, but so are extra leafs, big tires, and a huge speaker box in the trunk. The Explorer rear is a better option for 65-66 Mustangs. It's eaier and cheaper to modify to fit these cars. The Fox rear fits so-so. In order for it to fit properly, it would have to be narrowed, have a lot of bracketry cut off, and require custom axles. The Explorer rear only requires cutting one side (the long side) to match the short side and use two stock short axles, and relocating the spring pads. I'd recommend converting to 9" housing ends on either axle, though. It'll add some expense but make the rear stronger and safer.

sorry man...but you are wrong on that.

The fox rear is almost a perfect fit width wise. Check on page 1, someone posted pics of a fox rear in their stang unmodified other than adding leaf spring mounts and cutting off the old brackets. The explorer is more expensive needing cut down axle tube on one side, and an axle. The fox axles are perfect. Im currently using a 99+ rear in the 66 (pics posted) and its about 2.5" too wide. The fox rear is 3" narrower. Each axle is 1.5" narrower making it almost perfect width. Im having the rear cut down 1.5" on each side and using fox 5lug axles. With the explorer you have to cut one side down, move in the leaf spring perch...its a hassle. For the fox, you cut off both upper and lower brackets, set the rear inthe car and center it on new perches. Then just weld it on. Cutting and welding took me about 2 hrs total.

Tommy - Im not totally sure... Im totally amazed because Im having a 99+ driveshaft LENGTHENED 4". Im running a 4.6 that we put in but still had to be lenthened. I will post pics tomorrow, Im pickin it up from the driveshaft place tomorrow. I have another 99+ driveshaft here.

66Runt · Jul 9, 2006

Fox doesn't have to be narrowed, and is lighter

I used a cut off wheel and a grinder to remove the old brackets, and smooth the tubes. Came off pretty quickly (IIRC about 30 minutes worth of work). I did not cut the the ears off of the center section. Didn't need to, and wanted to keep the strengthening rib. Just my personal preference.
The shock mounts are on the spring plates, so that is not an issue.
On the rear end housing I bought ('91 GT) the axle tube diameter was 2-7/8". Which meant sourcing U-bolts. The U-bolts need to fit snug over the axle tube. 3" were too big and 2-3/4" were too small. I found them at Napa.
The Cobra brake brackets came from North Racecars. Great people, I used their recommended brake cables and extended the "Z" bend rod to make up the difference in length, then used a '67 cable bracket and changed the cable housing mounting points. This allows the use of the 11.65" Cobra rear disc brake setup, and works great!

For about $250.00 you can get FRPP 5 lug conversion axles and drums for the stock fox rear end. That is a great way to go, if you're not sucked into the 4 wheel disc brake hype. At that point it's pretty much a cut/weld/bolt and go project.

You have a couple of choices on welding up the spring perches. Basically the perches need to be perpendicular to the centerline of the axle tube, they need to be equi-distant from the backing plate flanges, and the correct distance apart (based on the distance, center to center of the spring locating pin). Lastly the stock pinion angle is 3 degrees. More importantly, is matching the pinion angle to the transmission output shaft angle. So you might want to mount the 5.0 and T5 first, set the car on jack stands so that your rocker panels are perfectly level, then measure the angle of the engine/transmission, and weld your perches accordingly. This will eliminate the vibration issue I hear a lot of people complain about with the 5 and 6 speed transmission swaps.
You can weld the perches in the car (a real pain in the rump way), or build a wood jig, and do it over a couple of saw horses.

I think you will find the drive shaft for the '86 Mustang is going to be too long. That's a good thing, as shortening it is cheap. I just measured my driveshaft. it is 49.5" center to center on the U-joint cap. I am using the stock '91 pinion flange. I have a 6 cylinder that pushes the T5z all the way back on it's mount. I am planning on pushing the v8 as far back as I can (for weight balance). That said, the most I'd have to go forward would be 1/2". So if your driveshaft is at least 50" long center to center on the U-joint caps you are good to go. Just shorten as needed.

In order to use the stock rubber brake line off the '86 you need to take the fitting off at the body, then use a die grinder to open up the bracket on your '66. These fittings are not made anymore, so don't let the '86 get away without getting this. I modified the stock '91GT rubber brake hose bracket so that it allows full suspension travel both ways without kinking or stretching the hose. This does not leave much room for dual exhaust, and when the V8 goes in I'll reroute the whole line and hose assembly over to near the frame rail. You'll need to look at this closely for your application.

I just put up a quick web page at Car Domain. You can see a few of the pictures there. I'll try to put up an entire step by step with pictures as time allows for others who want to do the same thing.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2400202

HTH,

xoxbxfx · Jul 9, 2006

66Runt said:
I used a cut off wheel and a grinder to remove the old brackets, and smooth the tubes. Came off pretty quickly (IIRC about 30 minutes worth of work). I did not cut the the ears off of the center section. Didn't need to, and wanted to keep the strengthening rib. Just my personal preference.
The shock mounts are on the spring plates, so that is not an issue.
On the rear end housing I bought ('91 GT) the axle tube diameter was 2-7/8". Which meant sourcing U-bolts. The U-bolts need to fit snug over the axle tube. 3" were too big and 2-3/4" were too small. I found them at Napa.
The Cobra brake brackets came from North Racecars. Great people, I used their recommended brake cables and extended the "Z" bend rod to make up the difference in length, then used a '67 cable bracket and changed the cable housing mounting points. This allows the use of the 11.65" Cobra rear disc brake setup, and works great!

For about $250.00 you can get FRPP 5 lug conversion axles and drums for the stock fox rear end. That is a great way to go, if you're not sucked into the 4 wheel disc brake hype. At that point it's pretty much a cut/weld/bolt and go project.

You have a couple of choices on welding up the spring perches. Basically the perches need to be perpendicular to the centerline of the axle tube, they need to be equi-distant from the backing plate flanges, and the correct distance apart (based on the distance, center to center of the spring locating pin). Lastly the stock pinion angle is 3 degrees. More importantly, is matching the pinion angle to the transmission output shaft angle. So you might want to mount the 5.0 and T5 first, set the car on jack stands so that your rocker panels are perfectly level, then measure the angle of the engine/transmission, and weld your perches accordingly. This will eliminate the vibration issue I hear a lot of people complain about with the 5 and 6 speed transmission swaps.
You can weld the perches in the car (a real pain in the rump way), or build a wood jig, and do it over a couple of saw horses.

I think you will find the drive shaft for the '86 Mustang is going to be too long. That's a good thing, as shortening it is cheap. I just measured my driveshaft. it is 49.5" center to center on the U-joint cap. I am using the stock '91 pinion flange. I have a 6 cylinder that pushes the T5z all the way back on it's mount. I am planning on pushing the v8 as far back as I can (for weight balance). That said, the most I'd have to go forward would be 1/2". So if your driveshaft is at least 50" long center to center on the U-joint caps you are good to go. Just shorten as needed.

In order to use the stock rubber brake line off the '86 you need to take the fitting off at the body, then use a die grinder to open up the bracket on your '66. These fittings are not made anymore, so don't let the '86 get away without getting this. I modified the stock '91GT rubber brake hose bracket so that it allows full suspension travel both ways without kinking or stretching the hose. This does not leave much room for dual exhaust, and when the V8 goes in I'll reroute the whole line and hose assembly over to near the frame rail. You'll need to look at this closely for your application.

I just put up a quick web page at Car Domain. You can see a few of the pictures there. I'll try to put up an entire step by step with pictures as time allows for others who want to do the same thing.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2400202

HTH,

Thats some good info... The 99+ driveshaft is 45.5" center to center and Im actually having it lenthened to 49.5".

As far as welding the perches in teh car, I just did 4 good tacks per mount and pulled the rear out. Welded the outsides and welded as much as I could on the insides..

8.8 fitment in 66?

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