90 Mustang Pimpxs Idle and Tune

Box 2 · Jul 18, 2018

I've been a long time viewer here and finally got my build running again. Below are the specs

408w
FID 1300cc
Twin 67s
Custom Cam .600/601
T56
TFI(for now)

I have the timing synced and the car would start up and hold a decent idle. I know the WUE needs some work but I'm having some issues. I let it warm up to 180-185* and the fan will kick on. The motor seems to get harder to keep running and will die on me. I try to start it back up (in 85* temps) but is slugglish and hard to crank. I am assuming a setting is not pulling timing on my tune. Any help or direction will be appreciated..thank you!!

Ryan
**msq is below and a log of when it was heat soaked and didnt want to stay running (timing showed 30* seemed like a lot)

**2018 is hot start
**msq is curent
**cold ilde is when coolant temps have dropped

a91what · Jul 18, 2018

I would have to dive through the tune later, but what idle strategy are you using? Closed loop or warmup?
Are you using the adaptive idle timing?

Box 2 · Jul 18, 2018

a91what said:
I would have to dive through the tune later, but what idle strategy are you using? Closed loop or warmup?
Are you using the adaptive idle timing?

closed loop

under closed-loop sensitivity - tuning mode says: advanced or basic, mine is set at advanced if thats what your talking about

a91what · Jul 18, 2018

There are two strategies closed loop and warmup. Closed loop let's the ECU try and reach a setpoint target by controlling the idle valve.
Warm up mode sets the valve to a set position based on engine temperature. This mode has no way to adjust for a variable load.
Closed loop sensitivity can have a major impact on the idle valve, I suggest using basic mode unless you know how to tune a(n) PID loop.

Box 2 · Jul 18, 2018

a91what said:
There are two strategies closed loop and warmup. Closed loop let's the ECU try and reach a setpoint target by controlling the idle valve.
Warm up mode sets the valve to a set position based on engine temperature. This mode has no way to adjust for a variable load.
Closed loop sensitivity can have a major impact on the idle valve, I suggest using basic mode unless you know how to tune a(n) PID loop.

thank you. I'll try this and report back. Will this setting help adjust the warm cranking issue?

a91what · Jul 19, 2018

Warm crank can be a number of issues from the idle valve being not open enough to too little fuel being injected during the cranking event (or too much).
This setting will be the cranking pulse, it will be very low when hot. Increase this by 1-2% at a time until it warm starts the way you want it to. Go slow too much and the engine will flood during cranking.

Box 2 · Jul 19, 2018

1. changed the closed-loop/tuning mode/ to basic (from advance)
2. decreased last two dots under cranking pulse%

Seems like the idle hunts now(didn't before..ill go back to my basic tune again see if that fixes it) but the cranking with hot seem easier to crank over did not start.

The issue seems to lean it self out at about 170/180 operating temp, idles lean and dies....then won't start when heat soaked

a91what · Jul 19, 2018

That tells me that the fuel table needs work, when the engine is cold there is WUE [warm up enrichment] added in. As the engine comes up in temp that fuel is trimmed out so the car will run on the fuel table without the WUE adder%..

IMO you need to start with the basics, tuning the VE table. Larger numbers mean more fuel.
For now start by highlighting the entire table and multiplying by 1.2 this will add 20% fuel to every cell in the table you will likely need more fuel than this but start with this for now.

Box 2 · Jul 19, 2018

Ok added some fuel..havent tried the hot start yet. The engine idled great for about 10-15 minutes. Only problem is when I increase the rpm and left off the gas it surges but recovers after 4-5 second...video link below. Thank you again!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a8mj21_jjI&feature=youtu.be&disable_polymer=true

Box 2 · Jul 19, 2018

does the bouncing have to do with the timing too high?? i remember my old setup having high timing values in the first column example 19* then second column was 16*

a91what · Jul 19, 2018

datalog please, this is the best way for me to see whats going on and give you advice

Box 2 · Jul 19, 2018

a91what said:
datalog please, this is the best way for me to see whats going on and give you advice

see below, thanks!

Box 2 · Jul 21, 2018

okay have an update, I will share the logs with you. Had it idling great, still has a hard time recovering back to and idle have increasing RPMs

Box 2 · Jul 21, 2018

current tune and logs

a91what · Jul 21, 2018

Alright so the idle settings need some work along with the fuel table. If you look under 'Idle Advance settings' you can see that the ECU uses a separate timing curve just for idle, it is currently set at 20* [this is fine I may actually suggest we raise this later] this area of the tune also has the idle correction advance curve. this curve modifies the base timing to help control the idle.
I see that your car has a hard time obtaining a steady idle, i made a small change in the timing portion of the idle strategy.... when you load this tune make sure that you review the differences between your current tune and this one so you can see what i did to make these changes.
I do not change tunes for people often so make the most of it.
I made some changes to the fuel table, mainly because it was crap. how much boost do you plan to run??? 300kpa is 30PSI

Box 2 · Jul 24, 2018

a91what said:
Alright so the idle settings need some work along with the fuel table. If you look under 'Idle Advance settings' you can see that the ECU uses a separate timing curve just for idle, it is currently set at 20* [this is fine I may actually suggest we raise this later] this area of the tune also has the idle correction advance curve. this curve modifies the base timing to help control the idle.
I see that your car has a hard time obtaining a steady idle, i made a small change in the timing portion of the idle strategy.... when you load this tune make sure that you review the differences between your current tune and this one so you can see what i did to make these changes.
I do not change tunes for people often so make the most of it.
I made some changes to the fuel table, mainly because it was crap. how much boost do you plan to run??? 300kpa is 30PSI

thank you! i will give this a try and report back

Ryan

Box 2 · Jul 24, 2018

I increased the TB blade set screw and re-calibrated the TPS to .95ish, synced with MS so far seems like it has corrected the problem. a91 thanks for your time to look into this issue!!

Ryan

a91what · Jul 24, 2018

Box 2 said:
I increased the TB blade set screw and re-calibrated the TPS to .95ish, synced with MS so far seems like it has corrected the problem. a91 thanks for your time to look into this issue!!

Ryan

There is no reason to ever touch the tps sensor with MS you would calibrate the TPS in the tools menu in tuner studio

either way i am glad it helped

your tune will still need alot of work so keep us posted with updates and datalogs!!

Box 2 · Jul 28, 2018

a91what said:
There is no reason to ever touch the tps sensor with MS you would calibrate the TPS in the tools menu in tuner studio

either way i am glad it helped

your tune will still need alot of work so keep us posted with updates and datalogs!!

Everything seems to be working okay...the hot start is still an issue. I unplugged the coolant sensor and it will START HOT...I put a new sensor in and have the same issues. I also double checked and the sensors are cailbrated

Ryan

a91what · Jul 28, 2018

Box 2 said:
Everything seems to be working okay...the hot start is still an issue. I unplugged the coolant sensor and it will START HOT...I put a new sensor in and have the same issues. I also double checked and the sensors are cailbrated

Ryan

You need to increase the ASE enrichment at full warm... increase by 10%
Then add to the ASE taper... increase full warm by 300.
Then blend them into the cold.
Let me know if you need screen shots.

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