94 Z28 Vs 93 Notch

Shoomakan said:

If the GT40 car weighs 3000 pounds or less, sure it will. I specified it needed to be lighter than stock.

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2000xp8 said:

That one serious loophole you left yourself to back misinformation.
You could use that excuse pretty much during any debate.
BTW, if you figure in that you lose 50lbs with aluminum heads and each 100lbs is worth a .1 (so is each 10hp added), the extra 40hp you get from the twisted wedges still outruns your 3000lb car with iron heads and that guy didn't have to turn his car into a stripped down POS to do it.

The gt40 iron setup is the worst bang for your buck mod. You know why? Because you spend money and you still lose to basic modern muscle cars. You could spend zero and get the same result, a loss...
There is always a faster car, but if you can't even compete with basic showroom sports cars, I don't even see why bothering doing it at.

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Shoomakan said:

Uhhhh... "Bash it all you will, but it works. A lighter GT40 car that's been well tuned will be a match for the TFS top end cars at the strip, and cost less."

Right there. Between the word "A" and the term "GT40" is the mythical word you didn't seem to see before you got your little angry boner.

I don't care about stripping my Mustang. I'm doing it nicely. I'm going for a factory stripped out look, not the rice method. But then again, I have 3 other cars to drive so I do understand your hesitation to joining the awesome club.

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FoxMustangLvr said:

So by lighter you mean a stripped down POS, no thanks I'll stay full weight and lose a couple tenths.

Reworking a set of gt-40 heads and getting a quality port job isn't really as BUDGET oriented as you might preach. I actually purchased a 3 bar set of GT-40 heads and then started looking around at how much it would cost to put in new and bigger valves, machine the heads to accept dual springs, 3 angle valve job, and port them (no flow bench in my neck of the woods) etc etc and I would've been into them for nearly $850-900. Where's the real savings over aluminum that are lighter and put out more power for not much more money new?

There's just no way for somebody who works to hang out at a junk yard and beat the vultures to these vehicles. Where I live the price at the local pull n' save is abotu $28 each head. But there are guys who literally make a living of hanging out at these places and pull these parts before the front desk person even knows it's available. Then these people sell them for a steep profit on CL or Ebay.

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2000xp8 said:

That one serious loophole you left yourself to back misinformation.
You could use that excuse pretty much during any debate.
BTW, if you figure in that you lose 50lbs with aluminum heads and each 100lbs is worth a .1 (so is each 10hp added), the extra 40hp you get from the twisted wedges still outruns your 3000lb car with iron heads and that guy didn't have to turn his car into a stripped down POS to do it.

And in the future to be fair, IMO when comparing the performance of certain parts, it should always be under the same conditions.

The gt40 iron setup is the worst bang for your buck mod. You know why? Because you spend money and you still lose to basic modern muscle cars. You could spend zero and get the same result, a loss...
There is always a faster car, but if you can't even compete with basic showroom sports cars, I don't even see why bothering doing it at.

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90lxwhite said:

Yes gt40 stuff will get you more power but I think the arguement this guy and I am making is that there is too much ground to cover between the pushrod 302 and modern horsepower numbers. One must spend more $ than a gt40 setup to stay competitive. The op's gt40 headed mustang tied a stock 20 year old z28 for Pete's sake.

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Micheal Nadeau said:

The new hellcat challenger, making over 700 hp ran an 11.2 on street tires........ 10.8 on street drag radials...... cost is $60K

The 2015 Mustang GT runs in at 12.8. 12.8 with a price tag of close to $40K.
The 2014 Camaro ZL1 runs in at 12.2, and its got a S/C on it. That will run you somewhere near $50K

Put a 20% of that cost into your fox and you can make a damn 11 sec street able ride.

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A5literMan said:

Umm, the op ran mid 13's on street tires. How fast do you think these new cars are running? I would say he's competitive right now. I've seen plenty of the coyote stangs,LS camaro/firebirds,hemi mopars etc at the track. Very very few are running under 13.0's on street tires. Sure a lot of them will win but by only a few tenths. All these new cars are far superior rides over our 20+ year old technology. Apples to oranges but I prefer the "old" crap.

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Micheal Nadeau said:

The new hellcat challenger, making over 700 hp ran an 11.2 on street tires........ 10.8 on street drag radials...... cost is $60K

The 2015 Mustang GT runs in at 12.8. 12.8 with a price tag of close to $40K.
The 2014 Camaro ZL1 runs in at 12.2, and its got a S/C on it. That will run you somewhere near $50K

Put a 20% of that cost into your fox and you can make a damn 11 sec street able ride.

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A5literMan said:

Don't see many at the track personally. I did see a Nissan GTR rip a low 11 with his wife/girlfriend in the passenger seat. Then they were asked to leave lol

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FoxMustangLvr said:

So by lighter you mean a stripped down POS, no thanks I'll stay full weight and lose a couple tenths.

Reworking a set of gt-40 heads and getting a quality port job isn't really as BUDGET oriented as you might preach. I actually purchased a 3 bar set of GT-40 heads and then started looking around at how much it would cost to put in new and bigger valves, machine the heads to accept dual springs, 3 angle valve job, and port them (no flow bench in my neck of the woods) etc etc and I would've been into them for nearly $850-900. Where's the real savings over aluminum that are lighter and put out more power for not much more money new?

There's just no way for somebody who works to hang out at a junk yard and beat the vultures to these vehicles. Where I live the price at the local pull n' save is abotu $28 each head. But there are guys who literally make a living of hanging out at these places and pull these parts before the front desk person even knows it's available. Then these people sell them for a steep profit on CL or Ebay.

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Shoomakan said:

Hey man.. I think you've never actually seen a measured difference between a stripped out car and a stock one. My 540i stock is good for a 14.6@99mph. After I removed 300kg of weight from it, tuned it, and shortened the diff, it did a best run of 13.06@107.2mph.

Would you imagine a nearly stock 540i can outpace a Challenger SRT8 from a dig?

Here's a video of my bone stock 540i matching a 355hp Audi S8 from a low roll till around 140mph. Why? Because the S8 weighed 150 kilograms more than my 540i: View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsK8Dej76O8&list=UU4NZg7e4Wq6UJNyc5FR9zBA


Here's a video against a tuned S2000 when my car only had a tune on it: View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI7PFniE61o&list=UU4NZg7e4Wq6UJNyc5FR9zBA


Stock S2000 is good for 14.1 sec @ 97 mph. Makes sense.

Here's what happened after I stripped it: View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkGNEAYOODE&list=UU4NZg7e4Wq6UJNyc5FR9zBA


Stock M3 is good for a 13.3 s @ 104 mph. That M3 had alot of goodies on it, but from a 20mph roll all the way up to 140mph, he couldn't pull a fender on me. WEIGHT.

It's not a couple of tenths. A proper weight reduction will yield you much, much more time than that. My 540i only made 282whp/299wtq, but the weight advantage kept it competitive. And for what it's worth, I kept my dashboard and all electronics and stuff in the front, where I was. Only behind my seats is when the mess started...

Even if it made the same power, the Fox will be faster as it is LIGHTER than my STRIPPED 540i bone stock. A 300whp GT40 Fox with the right setup is a car that can dip into the high 12's, which is still fast by today's standard.

Don't get me wrong, I received a lesson in modesty from this bone stock 500+ horsepower Range Rover: View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxvUstQg5C0&list=UU4NZg7e4Wq6UJNyc5FR9zBA


More power will eventually win the race, no matter what. I'm the first one to agree to that. My entire point is that basic boltons with the right gearing and good grip, along with a significant diet, will work wonders for the low budget racer.

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Shoomakan said:

Hey man.. I think you've never actually seen a measured difference between a stripped out car and a stock one.

More power will eventually win the race, no matter what. I'm the first one to agree to that. My entire point is that basic boltons with the right gearing and good grip, along with a significant diet, will work wonders for the low budget racer.

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FoxMustangLvr said:

I understand weight/hp ratio but your original post catered more toward the GT-40 $/hp being a better budget build for HP gains. Making a car lighter is not cheap. There is only so much you can unbolt and toss out before it starts to cost you money to lose weight. A quality Kmember isn't cheap and a MM Kmember really does offer weight savings, K members also normally require the use of coil overs which aren't cheap either, a fiberglass hood will run you about $800 after you paint it. The interior in a fox doesn't weigh that much and won't net you a full 1 second off your 1/4 mile time. Besides that, most of us aren't into completely gutting our cars and sitting on a 5 gal bucket while racing. We want to go fast while having a functional car to drive around town.

Also I haven't seen any people hit that magic 300 rwhp with a modified GT-40 setup. People typically get 260-280 rwhp. Check out the Guess My HP thread and look at peoples combos.

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MY 85 GT said:

I have a 300 srt8 didnt cost me no where near 40k..50k...60k to go 11s...actually it was cheaper then what my Fox cost me to build...see sig...oh yeah my srt8 with me in it is 4480 lbs too...

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