Engine 95 Gt 5.0ho Build-up

[95snoozer]

Crane Energizer pedestal mount roller rocker arms (possibly from redsn95gt above)

thats what I ran

Tokicos are fine, MM sells them in their kits. I have been in a bilstein H&R car and it was awesome. I have been in a bilstein stock spring car with full length subframes and it was FAR better than my my stock car with H&Rs and sways. These were each roomates of mine so I spent a fair amount of time in their cars.

i think you are on the right track. Dont over pay for any parts, if you are patient, you can mod successfully with all used parts and pay half the price. on the heads cam swap yes you will need to budget for

24# injectors and Maf, pushrods , headgaskets, oil change, coolant, gasket material, possibly a new timing chain while you are there, etc

you CAN run an explorer upper intake which is just as good as a gt40 upper. you will need a GT40 lower or a fully ported explorer lower. Here in lies the restriction. the explorer actually has the best upper of all of the gt40 family, i.e. explorer, gt40, cobra.

I would just call comp and have them spec you out some strong SINGLE springs that will work with that cam. That is what I did. About 120 bucks if I recall.


In response to some opinions above, I would never hold off on mods while waiting for a stroker. You will be 5k into the motor for any stroker and the boltons that work with that stroker will NOT be ideal for your stock 5.0. Most people who do without HP for that long while waiting for "one day when i get..." never really get to enjoy their car and wind up selling the project before it is finished or soon after.

If you really want more power down the road, Run a mild boost setup and put yourself at 400 rwhp on the stock block. Then your 3 series definitely will not be faster.

what year and model 3 series? If you have a 335i, I would be spending the money there 1500 will have blowing the doors off ANY heads cam mustang, and most street driven strokers.

 

[95snoozer]

I don't get the foxbody throttle body swap. It's much easier and cheaper to just buy the adapter elbow and an SN throttle body. The SN throttle body is a far superior design to the foxbody throttle body. Removing the EGR hurts performance, it's better to keep it.

Also heard lots of complaints about Strange struts. If you aren't willing to take them out about once a year to rebuild them, I would save up for something a little higher quality.

Kurt

removing egr does not effect "performance" whatsoever. How would adding hot exhaust fumes into the intake tract with a hole on the outside of a radius which creates turbulent air possibly be beneficial to "performance?" if you live in a COLD climate, it can effect your morning experience slightly if you havent already tuned out the net effect of the change. The elbow is a superior design? Where the heck do you pull that random fact from?

Not only is it MUCH cleaner, but it prevents you from having to buy an additional parts such as the elbow, which is NOT a true 70 mm the whole way through.

It also opens up endless possibilities in terms of TBs,air intake systems and Supercharger/turbo routing. Testing has shown an IMMEDIATE gain with no other modification on supercharged sn95s with the swap to the fox TB and a fox style setup. Not to mention the fact that if you are running a properly built stroker and wish to run a 75-90mm tb system that the fox is the way to go if you want a clean setup.


a fox TB swap and a used foxbody s-trim kit is FAR FAR cheaper and easier than trying to wait for a very limited run of 94-95 kits out there on the market .

 

[95snoozer]

BTW, I love magnapacks and that bassani header setup on 4.6 it sounds so good.

5.0 its just not a good as good as it does on ALL 4.6s.

SPintechs pros and Bassani real streets with removable baffles have to be the sweetest and one of the loudest sounds there is out there. check out killer95stangs video from when he first put on the gt40p setup. Look in the gt40P build thread.

 

[revhead347]

removing egr does not effect "performance" whatsoever. How would adding hot exhaust fumes into the intake tract with a hole on the outside of a radius which creates turbulent air possibly be beneficial to "performance?" if you live in a COLD climate, it can effect your morning experience slightly if you havent already tuned out the net effect of the change. The elbow is a superior design? Where the heck do you pull that random fact from?

Not only is it MUCH cleaner, but it prevents you from having to buy an additional parts such as the elbow, which is NOT a true 70 mm the whole way through.

It also opens up endless possibilities in terms of TBs,air intake systems and Supercharger/turbo routing. Testing has shown an IMMEDIATE gain with no other modification on supercharged sn95s with the swap to the fox TB and a fox style setup. Not to mention the fact that if you are running a properly built stroker and wish to run a 75-90mm tb system that the fox is the way to go if you want a clean setup.


a fox TB swap and a used foxbody s-trim kit is FAR FAR cheaper and easier than trying to wait for a very limited run of 94-95 kits out there on the market .

Recirculating exhaust gasses increases your effective octane rating. It is more of an issue with mid throttle performance. Removing the EGR also causes about a 2mpg loss in fuel economy. It has nothing to do with cold starting. I think you are thinking of a cold start injector, or the throttle body heating system.

I never said the elbow is a superior design, I said the throttle body is. Fox body throttle bodies are notorious for jamming. I've had 2 foxbodies, and I am very familiar with it. I've never had an SN throttle body jam, or ever heard of anyone else having one jam. Plus the foxbody cable is chinsy, and falls off when it wears out. I have only seen one actual before and after dyno test on a foxbody throttle body swap and it was on this website. He actually lost 1 hp going to the foxbody throttle body. Either way you are buying a new performance throttle body. Aftermarket SN and Fox throttle bodies cost about the same. The elbow is like $70, which is about the same cost as a throttle cable. The only difference with the going to a fox throttle body is that you also have to buy another intake pipe between the MAF and the throttle body. Again, more expensive.

In order to run a foxbody supercharger kit, you have to swap to foxbody accesories, which is a huge expense, requires a lot of custom work to get the radiator fan to fit, requires modification to the fox alternator bracket and wiring to get the SN alternator to fit, and is of course, also inferior in design to the SN accesories. I don't see any valid argument is swapping to a foxbody throttle body in order to save money on a foxbody supercharger, just to spend 3 times what you saved getting it to work.

Kurt

 

[psychorugby]

i think you are on the right track. Dont over pay for any parts, if you are patient, you can mod successfully with all used parts and pay half the price. on the heads cam swap yes you will need to budget for

I don't overpay for anything haha. That's part of the reason I am here posting. I want to make sure I get exactly what I need, no more, no less. I haven't checked out the for sale section here yet (if there is one).

24# injectors and Maf, pushrods , headgaskets, oil change, coolant, gasket material, possibly a new timing chain while you are there, etc

I think I have everything listed hardware wise except the MAF, so I am feeling a bit more confident. The timing chain and cover was replaced a few thousand miles ago when the main seals and water pump died, so I think should be okay there.

you CAN run an explorer upper intake which is just as good as a gt40 upper. you will need a GT40 lower or a fully ported explorer lower. Here in lies the restriction. the explorer actually has the best upper of all of the gt40 family, i.e. explorer, gt40, cobra.

The intakes and heads I get will most likely be off of an Explorer. My yard has eighteen Explorers right now. I have no idea which ones have heads or intakes, or which ones have what I want. It will be a fun day of pulling parts. Since these parts are so cheap being an employee, I can put some extra money toward the porting and polishing.

I would just call comp and have them spec you out some strong SINGLE springs that will work with that cam. That is what I did. About 120 bucks if I recall.

Sounds good. It will be a while, so I have some time to research and call around.

In response to some opinions above, I would never hold off on mods while waiting for a stroker. You will be 5k into the motor for any stroker and the boltons that work with that stroker will NOT be ideal for your stock 5.0. Most people who do without HP for that long while waiting for "one day when i get..." never really get to enjoy their car and wind up selling the project before it is finished or soon after.

If you really want more power down the road, Run a mild boost setup and put yourself at 400 rwhp on the stock block. Then your 3 series definitely will not be faster.

This is precisely why I am waiting for the motor. I think posting here has helped reign in my desires and plans. The car will never be a race car, so I determined what I really want is a shiny, low, and loud car that I can cruise to shows with my wife and friends. Getting the right exhause note is more important than the motor to me right now.

what year and model 3 series? If you have a 335i, I would be spending the money there 1500 will have blowing the doors off ANY heads cam mustang, and most street driven strokers.

2006 325i... it ain't blowing the doors off anything haha. I suppose it could get up to 300 ish horsepower if I really wanted to spend $1,000 on headers, $1,000 converting it to 330 intake, and $8,000 on a supercharger, but I am not into spending $10k on that car. It's got an M3 style body kit, H&R race springs, and Koni adjustable sport dampeners. Wheels might be the last thing it gets, but my focus has shifted back to the neglected Mustang.

 

[ratio411]

I don't get the buying of the elbow for a perfectly good GT40 intake.
Convert it to the Fox setup and be done with it.
Gets rid of the EGR as well, dumping hot gas into your engine.
I have always had great luck deleting the EGR.

 

[95snoozer]

Recirculating exhaust gasses increases your effective octane rating. It is more of an issue with mid throttle performance. Removing the EGR also causes about a 2mpg loss in fuel economy. It has nothing to do with cold starting. I think you are thinking of a cold start injector, or the throttle body heating system.

I never said the elbow is a superior design, I said the throttle body is. Fox body throttle bodies are notorious for jamming. I've had 2 foxbodies, and I am very familiar with it. I've never had an SN throttle body jam, or ever heard of anyone else having one jam. Plus the foxbody cable is chinsy, and falls off when it wears out. I have only seen one actual before and after dyno test on a foxbody throttle body swap and it was on this website. He actually lost 1 hp going to the foxbody throttle body. Either way you are buying a new performance throttle body. Aftermarket SN and Fox throttle bodies cost about the same. The elbow is like $70, which is about the same cost as a throttle cable. The only difference with the going to a fox throttle body is that you also have to buy another intake pipe between the MAF and the throttle body. Again, more expensive.

In order to run a foxbody supercharger kit, you have to swap to foxbody accesories, which is a huge expense, requires a lot of custom work to get the radiator fan to fit, requires modification to the fox alternator bracket and wiring to get the SN alternator to fit, and is of course, also inferior in design to the SN accesories. I don't see any valid argument is swapping to a foxbody throttle body in order to save money on a foxbody supercharger, just to spend 3 times what you saved getting it to work.

Kurt

The majority of this post is incorrect.

Cheap fox TBs jam

I've never had any issue with a fox TB cable, in fact it was much better than the original

I did not mention anything about using fox brackets, so that is not an argument.

The point of the swap is power gain on a boosted vehicle (and the use of fox a, s and t trim and various AFM power pipes,) which has been documented, Cleanliness and larger selection of High end TBs like accufab on an N/a

You shouldnt pay for any parts on this swap most can be had for free. Mine were, you just find a pick n pull, mustang graveyard or something similar.

Removing EGR did not have a 2 mpg effect on my fuel economy. It does however contribute to the carbon build up issues which cause part trhottle detonation in 94-95 e7 equipped mustangs due to their timing curve. whatever 2mpg effect you are quoting (if you could prove how this circulation from one cylinder of an 8 cylinder motor could have this great of an effect on octane build and fuel consumption) is easily modified in your standard tune.

the fox TB swap does not require more piping to be purchased or made than is already needed since you would technically be purchasing/making this already.

I did misread your post where you said the Tb was superior vs the elbow. The elbow is a restriction and the EGR is a hot mess.


I'd like to see your cars times with a fox TB swap and a properly sized TB for a 347. I assume your times are off the bottle.

 

[revhead347]

The majority of this post is incorrect.

Removing EGR did not have a 2 mpg effect on my fuel economy. It does however contribute to the carbon build up issues which cause part trhottle detonation in 94-95 e7 equipped mustangs due to their timing curve. whatever 2mpg effect you are quoting (if you could prove how this circulation from one cylinder of an 8 cylinder motor could have this great of an effect on octane build and fuel consumption) is easily modified in your standard tune.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I just don't see the point. My times are with an 80 shot, that is correct. I do not have updated times with the 150 shot or the new engine. If it doesn't run a 10.80 @ 124mph +, I'm lighting the car on fire. You'll never see my car with a fox throttle body, because I can see no reason to put one on. Between the two foxbodies I've owned, I had a stock throttle body, a BBK, and an Edelbrock throttle body. All of them jammed at one point or another. I can see no possible restriction in the elbow itself. I have never seen any data to show that it is a restriction, or seen any data to show that a foxbody throttle body reduces restriction. In fact the only reliable source I have seen is to the contrary. In all likely hood, there is no performance difference between the two.

I do not have an EGR on my car, because it won't fit. But for most street cars, there is no point in removing it. The fact that it increases your effective octane rating is common knowledge to almost every performance enthusiast. I have had the technical reason explained to me several times, and it never stuck. Ask a chemist. When I dissabled the EGR on my Foxbody, I lost 2mpg. When I replaced the EGR, I got 2 mpg's back. Several people on this website alone have reported similiar results. I have never had an EGR on either of my 347 engines.

I wouldn't make a blanket statement about someone being incorrect simply because you don't agree with them.

Kurt

 

[ratio411]

I can see how the EGR would raise your "effective" octane rating, because HOT air is thinner on oxygen content. That is not a good thing though.

Look at it this way:
Your car WILL run stronger in cold winter air, because you get more oxygen into the engine.
If you keep the EGR pumping extremely hot air into your engine, you will never see the best of cold air power. Why do CAI and Ram Air make power? Because the intake air is cooler. Why get a CAI if you keep the EGR pumping hot exhaust into your engine? The "effective" octane rating is raised by cold air too if you consider cold air, while leaning your AF mixture, will also cool the chambers better just due to the fact it is cold. With the EGR method, you are cooling your chambers with fuel by lowering air density... Which would make more power? They both have ping reduction characteristics, that is not in question.

I did away with the EGR in my Z28 and gained power as well as MPG.
I gained 2 MPG, making 28 on the highway.

 

[psychorugby]

I can see how the EGR would raise your "effective" octane rating, because HOT air is thinner on oxygen content. That is not a good thing though.

Look at it this way:
Your car WILL run stronger in cold winter air, because you get more oxygen into the engine.
If you keep the EGR pumping extremely hot air into your engine, you will never see the best of cold air power. Why do CAI and Ram Air make power? Because the intake air is cooler. Why get a CAI if you keep the EGR pumping hot exhaust into your engine? The "effective" octane rating is raised by cold air too if you consider cold air, while leaning your AF mixture, will also cool the chambers better just due to the fact it is cold. With the EGR method, you are cooling your chambers with fuel by lowering air density... Which would make more power? They both have ping reduction characteristics, that is not in question.

I did away with the EGR in my Z28 and gained power as well as MPG.
I gained 2 MPG, making 28 on the highway.

Cold air is always a good thing here. We hardly ever see cold winter air here in FL haha. This discussion is definitely providing me with some good reading and learning material.

 

[BlackVert]

The EGR is there for primarily 1 reason: emissions. The hotter air helps it burn more of the fuel that ends up in the cylinder, resulting in lower quantities of what they look for coming out the tail pipes.

Also, being what it is, it just so happens to not have much oxygen in it, so it dilutes the air, resulting in less oxygen making it into the cylinder. This is sort of similar to increasing the octane in that it allows the computer to run more agressive timing.

Of course, it is not actually better from a power or performance standpoint, but it IS part of the what that the computer assumes is going on, which allows it to command a little less fuel and run a little more spark timing, theoretically improving MPGs.

Bottom line: without the EGR, you are more likely not pass emissions testing, and more likely to get pinging, especially if you don't run higher octane fuel.

 

[95snoozer]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I just don't see the point. My times are with an 80 shot, that is correct. I do not have updated times with the 150 shot or the new engine. If it doesn't run a 10.80 @ 124mph +, I'm lighting the car on fire. You'll never see my car with a fox throttle body, because I can see no reason to put one on. Between the two foxbodies I've owned, I had a stock throttle body, a BBK, and an Edelbrock throttle body. All of them jammed at one point or another. I can see no possible restriction in the elbow itself. I have never seen any data to show that it is a restriction, or seen any data to show that a foxbody throttle body reduces restriction. In fact the only reliable source I have seen is to the contrary. In all likely hood, there is no performance difference between the two.

I do not have an EGR on my car, because it won't fit. But for most street cars, there is no point in removing it. The fact that it increases your effective octane rating is common knowledge to almost every performance enthusiast. I have had the technical reason explained to me several times, and it never stuck. Ask a chemist. When I dissabled the EGR on my Foxbody, I lost 2mpg. When I replaced the EGR, I got 2 mpg's back. Several people on this website alone have reported similiar results. I have never had an EGR on either of my 347 engines.

I wouldn't make a blanket statement about someone being incorrect simply because you don't agree with them.

Kurt

It wasnt blanket, I said most and then sited the disagreements.

I live in texas, we have had 170 days over 90 degrees, perhaps this could be why i dont see near the loss combined with my adjustments to the tune anyways. In my original post I did say that colder climates would have effects, but did not go into detail because I already had typed so much. All I know is,, there is no way my Geared heads cam car would get 26 mpg. It got 24 as it was on under-inflated drag radials (20 psi always).

Its funny, because you just so happen to have run 2 of the several brands that have known to stick.

I read yoru new 347 setup, You would probably benefit from a nice fox Accufab setup. dynotesting a TB swap with a 1 mph differential is also not a controlled test. I also did not say to run a giant TB on a mild 302.

I went from an sn95 elbow and 70mm TB with gt40 intake , to a typhoon intake with a Stock fox TB. I made several hundred dollars on the deal to spend on more important things like the right cam and springs and gt40Ps.

There is confirmed data on the fact that it is a restriction on SC 94-95s. In a controlled test, not something someone did 2 years apart on two different dynoes and then posted on a forum in an argument.

 

[revhead347]

I'd love to see that confirmed data.

Kurt.

 

[BlackVert]

i remember hearing that the reason why accufab stopped making throttle bodies for our motors was that swapping the throttle body by itself did not improve the flow, so they could not justify it.

of course, that could be interpreted in any number of ways, eg - maybe the SN95 TB is a better design then the fox one so there aren't as many gains to be had, or maybe the elbow slows the airflow down enough that a different TB doesn't help, or maybe something else is the culprit.

 

[revhead347]

That rumor about the fox throttle body has been around since the car first came on the market in 94' which is about as long as I've been toying with Mustangs. I have yet to see any verifiable dyno test to prove it in 17 years. I've heard guys swear by it, and I've seen guys with 8 second mustangs with adapter elbow say it's a waste of time. Whenever I see engine builds done, it's the heads, cam, and compression that seems to make all the difference. Everything else seems to be negligible. When I go to full throttle, my manifold vacuum drops to 0. I just can't see any physical reason why a small bend in the manifold would make any difference at all. In fact, from a physics stand point, the smoother path of the SN makes more sense.

Kurt

 

[psychorugby]

Seems to me it might be an interesting experience since I have *cheap* access to junk yards. I could pick the Fox body TB stuff up for around $25... when the adapter elbow alone is $75.

Florida has no emissions, so that factor doesn't bother me. It's also over 85° 10 months out of the year, so the heat factor doesn't really make a difference.

 

[BlackVert]

Kurt, I also bet that people who do the Fox TB conversion THINK it is better because of the shape of the TB pulley attached to the throttle cable. As you already know, the Fox TB is more circular, where the SN95 one is smaller closer to the closed position. So for the same distance of movement in the throttle pedal, the Fox TB opens faster, making it SEEM to the driver like a power improvement.

 

[ratio411]

Fact: More plenum volume slows throttle response on otherwise identical intakes.

So, if you put the elbow on a GT40, you add plenum volume.
Take the elbow off the same intake, and you decrease the plenum volume.

 

[revhead347]

Fact: More plenum volume slows throttle response on otherwise identical intakes.

So, if you put the elbow on a GT40, you add plenum volume.
Take the elbow off the same intake, and you decrease the plenum volume.

Goes along with Chris' theory. I'll buy that.

Kurt

 

[BlackVert]

Fact: More plenum volume slows throttle response on otherwise identical intakes.

So, if you put the elbow on a GT40, you add plenum volume.
Take the elbow off the same intake, and you decrease the plenum volume.

FACT: shorter runners decrease plenum volume
FACT: engines with shorter runners have decreased low end torque and improved high RPM torque (assuming the intake can flow enough air)

this is why carbed engines with less plenum volume than EFI engines are generally softer on the low end than EFI engines.

So, ..... draw your own conclusions