Engine 95 Gt 5.0ho Build-up

onlyme

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I found an article sometime back out of curiosity they tested 11 different intake setups on a 5.0 and they claimed the sn95 upper actually made like 3 ft lbs more torque and near 6 hp more then the previous h.o upper. This is the article I found online. I am not to sure which is better, but the fox setup looks alot better and gives you more options it seems. I also read somewhere before the 2000 Cobra R made production in testing they increased the upper plenum volume and made slightly more power.

http://www.dssracing.com/v/vspfiles/photos/Articles/efi dyno.pdf
 
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95snoozer

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Kurt, I also bet that people who do the Fox TB conversion THINK it is better because of the shape of the TB pulley attached to the throttle cable. As you already know, the Fox TB is more circular, where the SN95 one is smaller closer to the closed position. So for the same distance of movement in the throttle pedal, the Fox TB opens faster, making it SEEM to the driver like a power improvement.

Ive been keeping my mouth shut about this one because I dont believe "throttle response" is a performance gain and I did not want to cite it as a reason to do the swap.

However, I think you are right on that part about the design, and it leads it to be a "touchier" throttle that will react faster to your pedal inputs off idle. THIS was a definite change that was very noticeable. of course this has no effect on actual performance or power, especially if you dont lift to shift...


Reasons I see to do it:
-Cleaner engine bay.
-You can remove valve cover with everything on.
-If you have a high revving or bigger cube build that will benefit from a Big accufab (anything bigger than 70 mm)
-You want to run an sn93 style blower, pipe and or aftercooler, and or turbo piping.
- Can be cheaper than buying the elbow.
- Increased power on typical blown application. This has been documented, But After 10 years, it is buried a few pages down on google and I haven't had time to find it yet.

If you are starting from scratch, why not do it?


My bay was much less cluttered with foxbody LTs and no EGR, smog, etc. I even relocated the overflow tank to inside the fenderwell. :)
 

psychorugby

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If you are starting from scratch, why not do it?


My bay was much less cluttered with foxbody LTs and no EGR, smog, etc. I even relocated the overflow tank to inside the fenderwell. :)

This is reason enough for me to do it. This isn't going to be a race car by any stretch of the imagination. It's a cruiser with some snap in the accelerator. I've been looking for ways to clean up the engine bay, so if you have any other suggestions along this strain, I am all ears.
 

BlackVert

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This is reason enough for me to do it. This isn't going to be a race car by any stretch of the imagination. It's a cruiser with some snap in the accelerator. I've been looking for ways to clean up the engine bay, so if you have any other suggestions along this strain, I am all ears.
well then ... pulling out all the EFI and emissions stuff and putting in a carb really cleans up the engine bay
 

psychorugby

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well then ... pulling out all the EFI and emissions stuff and putting in a carb really cleans up the engine bay

I've thought about going that route, but didn't really want to deal with it. When I say cleaning up the engine bay, I really mean the wires and such. Most of y'all have really clean engine bays and I am jealous!
 

revhead347

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I've thought about going that route, but didn't really want to deal with it. When I say cleaning up the engine bay, I really mean the wires and such. Most of y'all have really clean engine bays and I am jealous!

Here's a picture of mine which should help with the jealousy. I'm thinking of adding a heater core pump in there too. I'm tired of freezing my ass red in the winter.

DSCN0048.jpg


Kurt
 

psychorugby

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This may potentially be a silly question...

Would the mild build I have listed previously be suited to adding a turbo to? I was drooling over some stuff at Hellion Power Systems and got curious. However, they only have kits for Fox 5.0L - does that even matter? I know 95snoozer suggested converting to a Fox throttle body and headers, so it got me thinking. It's still more money than I want to spend right now, but I'm hoping I would be okay to slap a turbo or supercharger on in the future... keeping my options open haha.

...Or upon further thought... DSS 347 stroker kit instead of FI??
 

VibrantRedGT

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If anything the worst thing done to the induction is putting a bend in front of the mass air meter. Turbulant rerouted air is a no no, plus the length of the air travel is far more greater, a short straight shot makes more power. I've proven that on a dyno with 5 cold air kits and 4 hours dyno time. If you don't believe this, take the air filter off in the fender and try driving your car around. You'll notice right away the air doesn't hit the meter correctly, it will skip and buck. Now take the bend off and run the car, it should idle fine and drive fine.

If you look through the SN95 throttle body with the blade at WOT you can actually see right into the intake. The bend is almost none existent although the way the parts look it can be disceiving.
 

BlackVert

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This may potentially be a silly question...

Would the mild build I have listed previously be suited to adding a turbo to? I was drooling over some stuff at Hellion Power Systems and got curious. However, they only have kits for Fox 5.0L - does that even matter? I know 95snoozer suggested converting to a Fox throttle body and headers, so it got me thinking. It's still more money than I want to spend right now, but I'm hoping I would be okay to slap a turbo or supercharger on in the future... keeping my options open haha.

...Or upon further thought... DSS 347 stroker kit instead of FI??
oh, no, here we go ...

how much money do you want to spend again?

what you could very run into with trying to put a fox kit on a sn95 is problems in the front of the engine. the sn95 accessories are closer in than are the fox accessories. and the space between the block and the radiator is shorter on sn95s than it is on foxes.

it MIGHT work, but you may also run into problems due to the above mentioned differences. it would be pretty dang hard to say for sure without actually trying it.

IMO, the best bang for the buck would be to just get a stock 351 and put that in. that is pretty cheap and not that hard to do. then upgrade the heads, cam, and intake later as money is available. then, if you really get ambitious, you can pull it and stroke it all the way to a 427 cubes if you want. who needs a turbo when you have 7.0 liters of fury? or keep the compression ratio low and turbo it too.

that is just my own personal opinion though.

(putting my flame suit on) i know, people will say "it's heavier", and "it will be slower than a 302", and all that yada yada yada. but a stock 351 block is MUCH stronger and in general a more robust foundation than a stock 302 block will ever be.
 

revhead347

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This may potentially be a silly question...

...Or upon further thought... DSS 347 stroker kit instead of FI??

Buying a crate motor is throwing money away. If you really want a stroker engine, spend the extra money it takes to get it built right, by a professional. It saves you money in the long run.

Kurt
 

psychorugby

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oh, no, here we go ...

how much money do you want to spend again?

what you could very run into with trying to put a fox kit on a sn95 is problems in the front of the engine. the sn95 accessories are closer in than are the fox accessories. and the space between the block and the radiator is shorter on sn95s than it is on foxes.

it MIGHT work, but you may also run into problems due to the above mentioned differences. it would be pretty dang hard to say for sure without actually trying it.

IMO, the best bang for the buck would be to just get a stock 351 and put that in. that is pretty cheap and not that hard to do. then upgrade the heads, cam, and intake later as money is available. then, if you really get ambitious, you can pull it and stroke it all the way to a 427 cubes if you want. who needs a turbo when you have 7.0 liters of fury? or keep the compression ratio low and turbo it too.

that is just my own personal opinion though.

(putting my flame suit on) i know, people will say "it's heavier", and "it will be slower than a 302", and all that yada yada yada. but a stock 351 block is MUCH stronger and in general a more robust foundation than a stock 302 block will ever be.

I guess it's boredom. Work slowed back down (month end close is over) and I had nothing better to do than surf and somehow I ended up on Hellion's web site after talking turbos with my buddy via email.

For some reason, putting turbos on an American muscle car just seems wrong to me. I've always been of the "there's no replacement for displacement" mindset. A 351 is a very good option if I could find one. Bigger is always better right? I want to build whatever motor it is myself though. I've done everything on a car other than building a motor and painting it, so I want to learn how to build a motor myself.

This car is an ever-changing adaptation of itself in my head. Hell, I'm even toying with putting it on air instead of springs and dampeners.
 

BlackVert

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It shouldn't be too hard to find one ... after all, the 351 windsor was used in probably a million or more of Ford's vehicles over the years. They are probably in every junkyard in America.

Like you, I would love to build my own motor myself, and someday, God willing, I will.
 

final5-0

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WOW ... From GT40 heads to now talking Turbo :rlaugh:

This thread has been interesting so I thought I'd join in on the fun :)

I gotta agree with others about OEM or GT 40 stuff not making the power of Aftermarket stuff
It just won’t move the same amount of air :(

I’m really big into a long term plan for combos
AND
You can easily see others results who’ve gone down the same road you are considering :nice:

Having said that …….
Here is what I’ve seen from being on these boards for years and doing OEM/Aftermarket combos

With a focus on OEM short block and staying NA

OEM Stuff

245-275 SAE RWHP
You see a lot of low numbers with these combos because ………….
They’re usually budget minded therefore …
They’re don’t have ALL supporting parts needed
They don’t have a good mix of parts that work well together
Lots of times they’re a first attempt effort so little experience and knowledge is applied
These combos don’t get optimized as they usually have no tune

You can sum it up by looking at what Ford did with the Cobra using the very same parts ;)

NOW … You stress a budget build is needed

SO … I’d say you are on the right track about getting into it on the cheap :nice:

That way … If you get bitten hard by the HP BUG … AND YOU WILL

You can get out of OEM for little or no loss and step up to more HP with Aftermarket stuff

AFTERMARKET Stuff

Only about 10 to 15% more power than OEM
Also … the cost is Way More than 10 to 15%

BEST HP BANG FOR THE BUCK SPENT

Mix OEM stuff with a blower :banana:

Look at just a couple of the advantages of this method of building such a combo
You can get started with the cheap OEM stuff

1 When you want to step up to more power ……..
The main parts you already have can be used
also
You’d not wanna move to Aftermarket stuff AND blower as the block is too weak anyway

2 You’ll gain MUCH more power this way as opposed to an Aftermarket NA combo :D

It needs to be said such a combo is not without compromises :nono:

Then again … ANY combo that makes significantly more power has that to deal with :crazy:

A few final thoughts about NA combos

OEM ignition is more than adequate if it is working as it should

With OEM stuff you want to use long runner upper intake for good low/mid range torque

With Aftermarket stuff I like a mid length runner for stronger upper end
These intakes will be softer on the low end
BUT
You can make up for it in the tune and header choice (Long Tubes) ;)

Speaking of header choice … LT’s … No matter if using OEM or Aftermarket stuff
They make significantly more torque down now and at midrange :Word:

Last topic … I promise :D

I don’t particularly care for the Steeda 19 as it has shown to be soft on the low end

Look at what 95 Snozzer did with his cam choice as it has really good looking curves

Just my 2 cents worth :)

Grady
 

psychorugby

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WOW ... From GT40 heads to now talking Turbo :rlaugh:

This thread has been interesting so I thought I'd join in on the fun :)

Haha. It's called boredom for eight hours a day at work. I am one of those people that constantly plans (i.e., dreams). I've got this giant build list for the car, but don't have the funds (i.e., the wife ain't biting on spending $10-15k on a 17 year old car) to do anything about it.

I gotta agree with others about OEM or GT 40 stuff not making the power of Aftermarket stuff
It just won’t move the same amount of air :(

I’m really big into a long term plan for combos
AND
You can easily see others results who’ve gone down the same road you are considering :nice:

Having said that …….
Here is what I’ve seen from being on these boards for years and doing OEM/Aftermarket combos

With a focus on OEM short block and staying NA

OEM Stuff

245-275 SAE RWHP
You see a lot of low numbers with these combos because ………….
They’re usually budget minded therefore …
They’re don’t have ALL supporting parts needed
They don’t have a good mix of parts that work well together
Lots of times they’re a first attempt effort so little experience and knowledge is applied
These combos don’t get optimized as they usually have no tune

You can sum it up by looking at what Ford did with the Cobra using the very same parts ;)

NOW … You stress a budget build is needed

SO … I’d say you are on the right track about getting into it on the cheap :nice:

I'd rather start here with parts I can get from my U Pull It yard(s). It's hard to argue with getting GT-40 heads and intakes for less than $100. It also serves as a learning experience and a way to tide me over by getting the car back on the road (by making it fun to drive).

That way … If you get bitten hard by the HP BUG … AND YOU WILL

Oh, I already have been. That's why I want the motor to be the last thing I play with on this build. That way I can get the car prettied up and drive it around while I decide where to go with the motor.

1 When you want to step up to more power ……..
The main parts you already have can be used
also
You’d not wanna move to Aftermarket stuff AND blower as the block is too weak anyway

I'll stick with the stock block and some upgrades for now. If (when) I want more power, I will probably get a new block and build it up.

2 You’ll gain MUCH more power this way as opposed to an Aftermarket NA combo :D

It needs to be said such a combo is not without compromises :nono:

Then again … ANY combo that makes significantly more power has that to deal with :crazy:

As long as it's streetable, I don't care. I don't need a cam that can't keep the car lit at stop lights, or so much HP/torque that I can't keep the tires on the ground.

A few final thoughts about NA combos

OEM ignition is more than adequate if it is working as it should

Everything here is good... might need some new plugs.

With OEM stuff you want to use long runner upper intake for good low/mid range torque

With Aftermarket stuff I like a mid length runner for stronger upper end
These intakes will be softer on the low end
BUT
You can make up for it in the tune and header choice (Long Tubes) ;)

Speaking of header choice … LT’s … No matter if using OEM or Aftermarket stuff
They make significantly more torque down now and at midrange :Word:

Low-end torque is the best. I don't have emissions to worry about and have the mechanical ability, so I plan to go with long tubes without question.

Last topic … I promise :D

I don’t particularly care for the Steeda 19 as it has shown to be soft on the low end

Look at what 95 Snozzer did with his cam choice as it has really good looking curves

I should probably edit the build list up top to include this cam. I will probably get the cam 95Snoozer suggested or a custom ground cam. How much will upgrading the cam affect power; can I upgrade the intakes and heads and wait to do the cam later?

Just my 2 cents worth :)

Grady

Please add all you want. That's half the reason I started this thread. I needed guidance to narrow my focus, and, maybe more importantly, I needed something to read at work... with people that car about cars since my wife just rolls her eyes and walks away if I mention cars.
 

psychorugby

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It shouldn't be too hard to find one ... after all, the 351 windsor was used in probably a million or more of Ford's vehicles over the years. They are probably in every junkyard in America.

Like you, I would love to build my own motor myself, and someday, God willing, I will.

This will give me one more thing to look for in my junk yard(s)... engines are only $250. Food for thought... just have to find room in the garage for an engine build haha.
 

final5-0

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A combo that is streetable can be done for sure :nice:

Its all in the tune ;)

You can go more aggressive with the cam than you think :banana:

As long as you got someone who really knows how to tune it :Word:

Sure you could do heads and intake together :)
but
I'd do the cam at the same time :D

Doing the cam later would be just too much work :crazy:

Grady
 

psychorugby

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This will give me one more thing to look for in my junk yard(s)... engines are only $250. Food for thought... just have to find room in the garage for an engine build haha.

Looks like we have 3 Lightnings and 23 F150s at my Orlando yard... and I don't have any help to pull a motor this weekend. Damn the luck.

There are plenty of Explorers too. I can pull heads and intakes myself. Is there anything else I should scavenge from the Explorers or F150s?
 

revhead347

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I know the mid 90s Lightning engine blocks are pre machined for roller lifters, I'm not sure about the regular F150s. You might want to figure out which engine blocks are pre machined for roller lifters. If it's an older block that isn't set up for roller lifters, it cost 4 times as much to put roller lifters in there.

Kurt