AFR 165 and off the shelf cam combos?

[LXSTASY]

I ordered my AFR 165 heads and they should be coming soon. The rest of my combo is:
Ported cobra intake (lower ported)
65mm FMS throttle body
C&L 76 mm mass air
BBk 1-5/8 longtubes
Dr. Gas X-pipe
MAC catback
Other mods are in sig
All the supporting hardware; 255 lph fuel pump, etc are also going to be used.

My question is what cam besides custom cam is good and what injectors should I use?
I was thinking a comp cams or lunati, corwer etc. I want to make as much power as I can but I still have to idle nice and is streetable.
Any suggestions for an OTS cam for my combo and injector size?
Thanks
Dan

 

[Rick 91GT]

You need to use a cam with a very soft ramp rate to use the stock springs on those heads, they only have about 120lbs. on the seat.

You could use a 24# inj on that combo with no issues.

 

[LXSTASY]

You need to use a cam with a very soft ramp rate to use the stock springs on those heads, they only have about 120lbs. on the seat.

You could use a 24# inj on that combo with no issues.

So the Comp Cams XE line wouldn't be a good choice with the stock AFR springs? What would be a decent cam to use with a soft ramp rate?

 

[Grn92LX]

Told ya so Dan

 

[LXSTASY]

Told ya so Dan

Yea I know, but not that i don't believe you but I didn't wanna believe that for $1300 I have to upgrade parts.

 

[Grn92LX]

Yeah I know how you feel. You can run a small cam like a TFS 1 or something mild like that on stock springs and still hit around 300rwhp but i'd like to see you get a nice aggressive cam from Ed with matching springs (he'll probably tell you to use his ps2 springs) and shoot for like 320+hp.

If only 300rwhp is your goal, you don't need a custom cam. When I first did my combo 300rwhp was the "number" to shoot for. Now we have guys doing that with GT40P heads so us guys with the expensive aluminum heads gotta shoot for higher goals now. I wanna see you make power, 300hp gets old kinda quick. I guess a 100 shot can cure that though

 

[LXSTASY]

Yeah I know how you feel. You can run a small cam like a TFS 1 or something mild like that on stock springs and still hit around 300rwhp but i'd like to see you get a nice aggressive cam from Ed with matching springs (he'll probably tell you to use his ps2 springs) and shoot for like 320+hp.

If only 300rwhp is your goal, you don't need a custom cam. When I first did my combo 300rwhp was the "number" to shoot for. Now we have guys doing that with GT40P heads so us guys with the expensive aluminum heads gotta shoot for higher goals now. I wanna see you make power, 300hp gets old kinda quick. I guess a 100 shot can cure that though

Well can i still keep it under 6250 and idle nicely without stalling all over the place and make 320. believe me I want to do it right and make as much power as I can with my goals in mind.

 

[Stang8URMPRT]

I've used an XE274E on my 83 (non roller cam) and it was f'in sweet. I also know that the XE274HR (roller cam, different specs) works good also. But you'd need to upgrade the springs. Best thing to do if you don't want to upgrade the springs, just give Comp cams a call, or AFR... They sure were very helpful when I called them.

 

[ROBSLXTASY]

yea

I have basically the same setup as you except for edelbrock performer rpm intake, 24lb injectors, 73mm c&L, with upgraded springs on the 165's I used the TFS stage 2 cam.. I dyno'd it at 12 degrees timing on 89 octane and only made 286hp/308lbs tq.. I was running 18:1 a/f for some odd reason so we let it go at that and did no more pulls, I was gonna go back and figure it out but have lacked the time to do so..I did however take the car to the track and made a full pass.. At full weight (3600lbs) on 89 octane/12 degrees timing cali emissions legal, she went 13.1@107mph with GR-40 suspension on nitto 245 dr's..Something to keep in mind is horsepower numbers dont mean crap unless your suspension is setup right.. TFS1 cam is a really good cam and will easily allow you to hit 300 as long as your tune is good.. I would imagine mine would make more with the a/f problem figured out, no cats, more timing and better fuel..

 

[LXSTASY]

I have basically the same setup as you except for edelbrock performer rpm intake, 24lb injectors, 73mm c&L, with upgraded springs on the 165's I used the TFS stage 2 cam.. I dyno'd it at 12 degrees timing on 89 octane and only made 286hp/308lbs tq.. I was running 18:1 a/f for some odd reason so we let it go at that and did no more pulls, I was gonna go back and figure it out but have lacked the time to do so..I did however take the car to the track and made a full pass.. At full weight (3600lbs) on 89 octane/12 degrees timing cali emissions legal, she went 13.1@107mph with GR-40 suspension on nitto 245 dr's..Something to keep in mind is horsepower numbers dont mean crap unless your suspension is setup right.. TFS1 cam is a really good cam and will easily allow you to hit 300 as long as your tune is good.. I would imagine mine would make more with the a/f problem figured out, no cats, more timing and better fuel..

So you are running the stage 1 or 2 TFS cam? Keep us posted if you dyno it again..

 

[Grn92LX]

Dan, I ran pretty good with the TFS 1 cam. I managed a 12.8 @ 107 shifting 400 rpm's too early. That was with shorty headers and a small 65mm tb too.

You may end up dealing with surging no matter which camshaft you choose. I have a Ford idle adjuster plate somewhere in my toolbox I can give you if you have a surge problem. With the tfs 1 cam and c&l mass air, once I put this thing on ALL surging ended.

Porting that cobra lower will help out nicely. I'd like to see you sell that 65mm tb and get a 75mm. Just take a dremel and open up the manifold inlet to match 75mm.

Another option if your hung up on off the shelf cams is too call up buddy rawls and pay him his small fee and he can do the calculations and pick a decent OTS cam for you and tell you how to install it.

Did you get the 58cc stud mount heads?

 

[5spd GT]

Keep your FMS 65mm TB...the quality is great and it will flow PLENTY for your combo and you will be less likely to see the problems that a bigger throttle body like a 75mm can cause (part throttle bucking/loss of torque down low/loss of throttle response)

Michael Yount, Tmoss, MustangDaren all have experience with the velocity theory. They suggest that the 65-70's are a better choice and do the job nicely. Mustangdaren switched back from a 75mm TB to a 70mm TB because he didn't like the loss of response he got with the 75mm TB. Tmoss ports upper/lower intakes and knows what he is talking about. I have had personal experience with the throttle bodies. My friend had a 75mm TB on his car and he experienced those symptoms above. He swapped back to the "smaller" size and waaallllllaaaa...it was gone.

Paul (killercanary) runs 112.51mph with his 65mm FMS TB in a 3600lb sn95 vert with a 302 h/c/i (N/A)...so it isn't slowing him down

Keep your throttle body and put the money elsewhere where it matters...

 

[LXSTASY]

Dan, I ran pretty good with the TFS 1 cam. I managed a 12.8 @ 107 shifting 400 rpm's too early. That was with shorty headers and a small 65mm tb too.
Did you get the 58cc stud mount heads?

Well I ordered the heads and they are going to be shipped from AFR as soon as they are done.
What rpm were you shifting at that you were 400 rpm too early?
Could you have gained a MPH by shifting 400 rpms later?

 

[LXSTASY]

Keep your throttle body and put the money elsewhere where it matters...

Yea I think I am going to keep the 65 for now. I just need to decide on a cam to use.
I am leaning not too much toward custom b/c eventually I want a bigger motor so I think an OTS cam that gets me 300 rwhp would be suffice for now until I get a real motor.

 

[5spd GT]

Yea I think I am going to keep the 65 for now. I just need to decide on a cam to use.
I am leaning not too much toward custom b/c eventually I want a bigger motor so I think an OTS cam that gets me 300 rwhp would be suffice for now until I get a real motor.

That isn't a bad way of thinking for the off the shelf cam idea. Just for your info a custom cam isn't no more than $125-200 bucks more depending on what off the shelf cam you get. I would personally splurge for a custom but you got a good idea though

With your heads/cam/intake combo you aren't going to make much power past 6000rpm unless you want to give up some driving manners that you would like to keep. If you got a "big" intake, and a higher revving cam you can go shift around 6200rpm and still make some power...but your best bet on a daily driver combo (your cam will be matched with it) will fall in the rpm power band of 2600-5600rpm...some just a bit higher. You would want to shift a couple hundred rpm more than that at the track. No need to push the rev-limiter (6200)...nothing to be gained except "more wear"

 

[Grn92LX]

Dan, look into something from crower, comp XE or Anderson Ford. Like I said, you WILL be changing valve springs.

The AFM n-41 would work decent for what your looking to do. If the N-61 fits, that would rock too I bet.

Check this out: 340rwhp 306. afr 165's, ported cobra, hooker longtubes and an AFM n-61 cam. http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/cars/Mgerman.html

I wanna see you make POWER, Dan. All said and done those heads will cost you near $1500 with good springs, I wanna see you make GOOD power for that money spent. Like I said, 300rwhp was decent 4 years ago, but times have changed You still have the Tbird for daily beating right?

Hopefully we'll both be running soon and we can hit up ocean parkway. I'll give you 2 and the brake

 

[5spd GT]

LXSTASY - Do you have your smog pump, air conditioning unit, and power steering deleted like the above linked car? If not then your not going to see power numbers like that. And be streetable in the average mustang enthuisiast definition of "street fun".

Just as well there is not other "specs" on what is done to make that power like an aluminum flywheel...was the engine itself dynoed or was it done a chassis dyno...

Not specific enough to get the right combo...

I would degree the cam in no matter what cam you get (especially if it is a custom cam)...

Good Luck

 

[Grn92LX]

Dan, you have my cell phone #, when your ready for REAL advice and ready to go fast, call it

19 year old teenie-bopers like 5spdGT like to pick apart every little thing I say. Dan, be careful who you listen to on these teenage filled mesage boards. Some kids have "fastophobia" The fear of going fast

Call me when your ready

 

[5spd GT]

Dan, you have my cell phone #, when your ready for REAL advice and ready to go fast, call it

19 year old teenie-bopers like 5spdGT like to pick apart every little thing I say. Dan, be careful who you listen to on these teenage filled mesage boards. Some kids have "fastophobia" The fear of going fast

Call me when your ready

I'm not 19...

Well if "picking apart" is telling all the variables in making power...then I guess I'm guilty. It isn't as simple as saying this cam with this head/intake will make X amount of power. Almost every one of your examples of "big power" is on cars with deletions like a/c or power steering/aluminum flywheels...but you seem to get convienent amnesia everytime about those "mods"...

 

[Stang8URMPRT]

Dan, you have my cell phone #, when your ready for REAL advice and ready to go fast, call it

19 year old teenie-bopers like 5spdGT like to pick apart every little thing I say. Dan, be careful who you listen to on these teenage filled mesage boards. Some kids have "fastophobia" The fear of going fast

Call me when your ready

You're an idiot.