alright i'm dreaming out loud again

sn-95matt5-0 · Feb 18, 2007

ok yea i'm talkin about my dream of putting a 351w in my car again.....

i was looking at a pull-a-part junk yard thats close to where i live and their selling 351w blocks for 150 apiece

i got some questions that maybe some of you role models out there may be able to answer for me :SNSign:

1. how much to just get this motor in my car(i'm kinda wanting to see a build sheet of wat yall used and where yall got your stuff at)

2.is it possible to get 350-400 horse power out of these engines while using say a 351 gt40 lower cobra upper intake,,maybe some summit or jegs name brand heads and a good came(this is leaving it a 351w not stroking it)

3.where to get the retro roller conversion for non roller cams

4.where to get a good forged rotating assembly for a 351w

i was hopin to maybe just get the motor in my car with cheap heads intake and cam. but a GOOD bottom end on the motor so i can just save(kinda like just startin out with a fresh motor to build)

i get anything from a 69model truck all the way to a 90 model i dont know if there all 351w or not but i'm sure theres several in there me and dad was thinking bout goin to the salvage yard in a couple of weeks and checking them out so i'm trying to get a list to take with me to decide which block i would want too...

thank you any input and i'm sorry for such a long post i really would love to do this swap during the next year that i'm home with dad i think it would be fun to work on this with him and i like the idea of working on a massive 351w more than i do the 302.

Pokageek · Feb 18, 2007

I'll start. Dream on. I was "contemplating" this smae idea one day in a parking lot waiting for someone. I said, wouldn't it be cool to bump up to a 347. Then I started thinking wouldn't it be outrageous to go 351 or 408! Now I am doing it and living life. So...351 is still a long road.

I am finding out you have many things to consider:

need a good tune, cooling, fuel rails, exhaust changes, electrical - new distributor, intake upper and lower, oil pan to fit the car, new hood or lower motor mounts (might shake the car though)..flywheel,...balancer...then you have to consider the ripping tourque and put in lca and uca weld supports so you don't tear the car in half...You can add that up. Lots of $$$.

trav_19 · Feb 18, 2007

351 based engines are a very big commitment...you think oh cheap blocks...im guessing you want to stay injected so converting a old block will cost you some money and taking the cheap way out is never the solution if you want to leave it a 351 thats fine but dont skimp on the build my friend had a 351 carb setup and i cant remember the hp numbers but the car ran 11.30's at the 1/4 but he has upgraded to a big block so i will be robbing his 351 stash...im in this "dreamer" catagory too...im getting my block soon to so i can have it ripped apart inspected bored and ready for the stroker

sn-95matt5-0 · Feb 19, 2007

so would it be cheaper to do a 331 with good internals AND a good top end than it would be to do a 351w with good internals and basic(just enough to run good) top end parts

BlackVert · Feb 19, 2007

definately a bigger job than a 331. for me though it is worth it because i had to rebuild the bottom end anyway, and i did a cash out refinance so i have the money to do it right.

some pretty ballpark costs:
- basic machine work: 500
- 351 rebuild kit with forged pistons (reuse stock rods and crank): 500
- heads: whatever your cost is
- 351 lower intake: 300
- cam: 250 for an off the shelf comp cam
- lifters: 150 if block is hyd roller compatible, 450 otherwise
- 351 headers: 300
- oil pan: 150-300 depending on which one you pick
- gasket set
- bolts
- drop motor mounts: 125
- or new hood to clear 351: 300 + paint
- fuel rail mods: ???
- fuel injectors (19#ers won't cut it): 250
- matching mass air meter: 200
- 70 or 75mm throttle body: 200

then there are other gotchas, like if you put in an aftermarket k-member to be able to get the engine under the hood, then you need a steering shaft because the stock one is too short because the k-member moved the steering rack further away ...

another thing to think about is whether the tranny can take the torque. for a pretty basic 351, it could probably handle it.

the retro lifters are have link bars instead of the spider hold down thing and they cost about 450 at summit or other places. they are if you have a non-roller block and want to use a standard base circle hydraulic roller cam.

comp and crane make them

BlackVert · Feb 19, 2007

of course, with a 331 with better heads and intake, many of these costs are there too, so the difference is not as great as it might seem. the real difference is getting the bigger engine in the car, not building the engine itself.

sn-95matt5-0 · Feb 19, 2007

yeah i'm goin to finish my paint job before i do anything but i thought bout buying one of these motors then stocking on parts for the build

i'm ordering a cervini's cobra r hood this or next week so i will already have a cowl hood with a 3.5in cowl so maybe that problem want be so bad

i really just wanted a big project to work on and end up haveing a nice big torqy motor(even if its only a basic 351w)that i can add on to when i get the extra cash

Pokageek · Feb 19, 2007

351's have stronger blocks too.

94venom5.0 · Feb 20, 2007

i was thinking of dropping a mildly built 351 in my 85 coupe, but i just cant decide whether to do that or just get a 302....my car is an original 4 cyl car so i cant decide...opinions??...oh and money is kind of short..im a college kid...but if i had all the money and all the resources i would do the 351

Pokageek · Feb 20, 2007

They put a 351 in the cobra R and that was real fast. Plus the torque on a 351 will be real good down low so whether its an auto or stick it will perform great!

mustang6tee8 · Feb 20, 2007

A Lakewood scatter shield might be a good investment if you're going to use the stock tranny. Don't forget about mounting the accesories too. I believe they sell conversion brackets.

reddy351 · Feb 20, 2007

Don't let these guys talk you out of this swap. It's not cheap and it's not easy. What do you want, somebody to do it all for you? NO! This "hot rodding" thing that we do, requires an ability to learn how to do a lot of things for yourself. (Unless your name is Jay Leno. Then you just pay somebody to pull off your hairbrained schemes.) This forum is for information and support to help you with your own projects.

As far as your project, just put a stock 351w in there, for now. (Get one from a truck, with a roller cam and stuff. What are the years for those, guys?) Even THAT would be a huge improvement over even a mildly modified 302. The bare minimum for that would be the oil pan, distributor, "truck" lower intake, flywheel and headers. Other stuff would pop up. It will either "get you" or it won't. GO FOR IT!

sn-95matt5-0 · Feb 20, 2007

thanks man i'm goin to try and go for it but like i said earlier this is planned for after i get the car painted and i'm almost to the point of prepping in my funds just got to get the hood and tails

sn-95matt5-0 · Mar 9, 2007

do you think a trick flow track package would breathe good enough for a 393w
not as a finished porduct but just to be something to last for a little while untill afr's, a good intake, and a custom cam could be afforded

BlackVert · Mar 10, 2007

lol i went the "jay leno" route, because i have no garage and no time to work on it right now even if i did have a garage.

i think you would ending spending more money that way, unless you can get the stuff at a good price on corral or somewhere.

i think just getting the 351 in stock form into the car and running is a very good idea. that is the biggest hurdle. then you can start collecting the money and parts for your final setup. after that rebild is done, you will have already solved the problem of how to get the motor into the car.

i would get the headers i wanted to end up with though, because if you have to buy headers, you should only have to buy them once.

trav_19 · Mar 10, 2007

i think if your on a tight budget and want to do this why swap out your 5.0 and put a low build 351 in then have to tear it apart when you get more money?? do what i am and build it then when its complete just swap the 2 engines... i think if you really want to put it in and buy lower end parts then upgrade to higher end parts then make sure your internals are what you want....you have the ability to stroke it i would it costd no more reslly then a 302 based stroker

sn-95matt5-0 · Mar 10, 2007

yeah i was goin to go ahead and get a forged internals package from chp
(might as well go with something good on the bottom end)

i was just wondering wat i could do for the top end of the motor(H/C/I) to keep it low budget but have a nice running car (i have even thought bout getting ported gt-40p heads and a cobra upper and 351w lower intake and maybe get a desent cam just to last but i didnt know if there would be drivability issues with parts that wouldnt breathe as much as the motor needed to breathe

and is there any pros and cons between goin 393 or 408??
does it weaken the block any to got 408?if i wanted to go power adder later would it be best to go 393 or would it matter?

thanks for putting up with my questions guys i appreciate it:SNSign:

trav_19 · Mar 10, 2007

you just need to look at the kit and what parts it comes with...theres nothing wrong with a 408 they make a 428 kit for the 351w

the kit im going with is from coast high performance too its a 408 with a forged crank probe forged aluminum pistons... it designed for boost or nitrous ...

let me look in my stroker specs book for a 393.......

if you want a poweradder then look for a foged crank... chp kit comes w/ high nodular...hmmm i dont aucually know what that is. but it does come with probe forged aluminum pistons which are really good ...what poweradder will you be running i am running nitrous...

your kit dosent specify if it can handle boost well or not

in my book its described as a good affordiable street engine...with a max rpm of 6,300

BlackVert · Mar 10, 2007

a 408 block is the same as a 393 block. the difference is the length of the throw of the crank

power adder means lower compression. that means dished pistons instead of flat top pistons

sn-95matt5-0 · Mar 10, 2007

i dont know wat power adder i would be running i was just thinking wat would be the best to go with if i decided to later

in other words would it be ok in the future to run a supercharger or turbo on those internals(just a "wat if")

and blackvert how much would it hurt my n/a power now if i went with dished pistons just incase when the money came later on down the road i decided to but a blower or turbo on

alright i'm dreaming out loud again

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