anyone build motors? i need to beat a honda.

vristang · Aug 3, 2005

gojonnygo said:
well i keep coming back to get informatioin on the questions i asked. if you could post the how to and a pick that would be great. i found an efi motor for 150 at the junk yard but passed on it b/c i wanted a rollor and did not know how to do the conversion.

thanks

http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34134&stc=1
We'll see if the link works, if not there is a pic on page three of the 351w sticky. If it ever disappears email me for another.

I only posted the pic of the dogbone grinding, so I will describe what I did and copy it to the sticky because it really should be there.

I still had all the stock lifters, dogbones, and the spider from my 302. 2 holes must be drilled in the valley floor for the spider. These holes however are just above the cam bearings. If you drill all the way through with the cam in place, you will be buying a new cam and/or bearings. Once the block is stripped mock up where you want the spider to sit. Make sure the spider will contact the dogbones properly. Mark (using a paint pen or scribe) the desired location of the holes. Then drill and tap. Most engines are not flat in this spot however so instead of trying to drill on top of raised lettering you can grind down to a flat surface. This will make it much easier to tap as well. There is no need to drill through to the cam bearings. A short bolt with some thread locker will suffice. If you do drill through, all is not lost. remove any burrs from the cam journal and use a thread locker on the threads of the spicer bolts similar to oil galley plug thread locker/sealer.

The lifters will fit in the bores just fine. I don't think the size ever changed on the Windsor motors.

The most difficult and time consuming part is getting the dogbones to sit flat. This is slow work with a hand dremel. Not taking away enough material or taking away too little will both result in the dogbones not seating properly. The alternative is aftermarket lifters that use tie rods instead of the spider and dogbones.

Do all of the grinding/drilling just after you strip the block bare, and before you take it to the machine shop for bore/hone/clean/inspection. This process will be very messy and there is no way to keep the block as clean as it needs to be.

Dbeck002 · Aug 3, 2005

gojonnygo said:
im looking for a good parts combo. i have already decided on a 408. i want to keep it n/a with high compression. i can assemble it just dont have much experience with building a high performance motor. it will be mainly a track car.

I dont doubt anyones ability. But building a 12:1 compression 408 stroker that spins to 8 SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED BY A FIRST TIMER, SORRY.

If you want to build an N/A motor that runs low 10s, please do yourself a favor and buy the engine OR.

Ever thought of this? How about boosting a smaller engine?
That way you can build the engine (302's are easy as hell to build with all respects) and brag to your friends its your work, while they smell your exhaust!!!

bluevenom867 · Aug 3, 2005

Well apperantly,you serious.

So this is what I think will get you into the low tens maybe even into consistant high nines.

Get a early model 351W block (69-74').Find a good stock 351W crank,get a set of scat I beam rods and a good set of forged pistons.Spend some money for a set of plasma moly rings (like the Speed Pro's are good),have it all balanced.

For the top end,probably some Victor Jr. heads (as there reasonable price wise).Now the expensive part,get a set of link bar styl solid roller lifters and big solid roller cam (or a nitrous grind solid roller).Get a Victor Jr. single plane intake on it,do a little hand porting on it yourself,and put it on.Then a 850 DP carb (I like the Might Demon BG,its cheaper than the Holley HP and a very good carb).And of course a NOS Big Shot Plate (or NX or whatever you want to use).

That combo on a 200hp shot should go into the low tens no problem.I know you said you wanted a N/A motor to run thous times,but let me tell you.My 408 has almost triple the money into it compared to my 357,and that was with reusing part from the 357 (which,btw I had very good parts on that motor.Only weak spot was it had hyperutectic pistons).

Rick 91GT · Aug 3, 2005

gojonnygo, if you want to build a motor of that caliper start with a good foundation, a DART or World or SVO block.

Like I stated earlier a healthy 408 stroker could be build to meet your goals. I would build a SOLID ROLLER COMBO,12:1+ compression, AFR225 or some TFS highports, Super Victor EFI Spyder, 90mm TB, 90mm MAF, 50-55# inj, 1.875" to 2" header, etc...

payupsucka · Aug 3, 2005

this thread is the gayest gay that has ever gayed

M.A.V. · Aug 3, 2005

well at the local track around here my dad said that he saw a supra the looked stock other the the slicks that ran 10s,but 3 honda's in the same town and there all friends with you,some how I dont think so.Ask them to show you time slips
(purple87lx)

Paul Perreca · Aug 3, 2005

i cant remember the largest one, get the 514 (i think) crate motor and juice it lol
Paul Perreca

Boss 351 · Aug 3, 2005

I want to see more of this streetable 10 second honda... I've checked out honda-tech.com and they have some members with real fast cars some are streetable (I guess) and others are pure track only cars.

If someone shows me a 10 or even low 11 second Honda Civic that has electric windows (no lexan anywhere), seating for 4, will not blow up an engine at every other street corner, has a sound system, a suspension that won't give you motion sickness, has a REAL muffler or sound below 75db at WOT, oh and runs on pump gas. I'll be in awe and probably buy one as a winter car and start "fixing" it up so I can end up with a fast little sleeper daily driver (something I've been thinking about not not sure if was possible). Sorry for ranting about this... it's now got my curiosity by the balls. And I apologize for my previous post in this thread, I sit corrected.

tjm73 · Aug 3, 2005

Ok, if these 3 miracle Honda's exist.... .... what track is their "home" track and who are the guys that own them? Stangtnet is so friggin' big that if these cars really exist, their is bound to be someone else on here in that area that knows of or can confirm/disprove their existence.

At this point I say

What race track is it in that video?

Boss 351 · Aug 3, 2005

Wooo the BS flag people are doing the "wave" hehe I mean he did show us a 10 sec video... I don't think anyone would actually fake a video?

darthcual · Aug 3, 2005

Um 1/8th mile track on the vid anyone, cuz thats what it looked like to me.

kennebell331 · Aug 3, 2005

I dont know so much about honda like some of my diehard friends, but those hpower numbers are straight horse poo!

Your brain is on drugs kid.

bseries4life · Aug 3, 2005

lol some of you are a bit misinformed on the honda side of things.. but mostly right about the 700+ hp .. and even if those cars did make that much power, it'd be extremely difficult to put the power to the ground..

high hp hondas (300+ hp) can be run very reliably.. there's tons of ppl with 400-500 hp daily drivers.. it's all about the tuning, as well as the engine build.. clearances have to be nailed (ring gaps, main bearings, etc) plastiguaging is a huge no-no as it's too inaccurate.

http://www.chtree.com/~civicryda2k/videos/DucDyno.mpg - 700hp civic dyno run.. looks impressive, but i can't see it running properly in the long run, topping out at 9k will start to take it's toll..

http://www.evans-tuning.com/videos/MikesGSRDyno.wmv - 415hp pump gas / 515hp race gas ... full out daily driver

Anyways with all the cubes under the hood, taking out a honda will be a piece of cake.

mrswivlepants · Aug 3, 2005

darthcual said:
Um 1/8th mile track on the vid anyone, cuz thats what it looked like to me.

Don't think so. If you slow the video down you can see the car trapped at a little over 127mph.

hllon4whls · Aug 3, 2005

Weather or not the hondas exist, lets focus on the meat of the question. What combo to run 10's in a track only car?

I hate the sensless waste of innocent electrons.

Sicarius428 · Aug 3, 2005

A couple of my friends have some pretty streatable 500+ hp hondas. Granted they fudged the smog test so they aren't exactly legal but their road maners aren't bad at all. With the ability to tune on the fly with boost controllers the car doesn't have to run at 700hp all day long so it's not like you would have to drive a nascar to the supermarket. What is your budget that you have for this project? It will be definately a lot cheaper if you didn't go the NA route. Since you mentioned that you didn't intend to drive it on a street you have a really good start for a carbed application. Roller block is nice but its really not necessary if price is a consideration. One thing that front wheel drives lack is traction, with what they will have to make up with HP you can tune with suspension and the knowledge that your engine will outlast a couple of theirs. Sometimes you can find a 03/04 cobra engine w/supercharger for a reasonable price. It will take some work to get it in but I mention it because it has foraged internals, easy to upgrade and capable of handling 600+ hp. If the 3700lbs stock cobra can pull a mid to high 12 with just a set of slicks, you should be able to do 11s fairly easy with some good traction and some minor mods. There is a website about the 4.6 fox conversion and I can't find it to save my life but just a thought.
Kevin

gojonnygo · Aug 3, 2005

well the budget for this project is where ever i land up at the end. im just going to take it one pay check at a time. i decided on a 351w a while back but havent got one b/c i couldnt find a rollor block and didnt know how to do the conversion. it looked like there was three holes drilled in that pic. will a machine shop know what i was talkin about if i asked them to do it? shouldnt be too much extra to have them do it sence it has to go there anyway. i dont really have the money to go blow 6 grand + on a cobra motor right now but the day i do i will probably use it as a down payment on the whole car. i found a 351w in a junk yard by the house a couple weeks ago, maybe ill get a chance to go pull it out this weekend or next, if its still there.

THANKS to those of you who helped and keep em comming.

Albrainya · Aug 3, 2005

a honda? you could beat one of those with a bicycle

maverick0716 · Aug 3, 2005

Albrainya said:
a honda? you could beat one of those with a bicycle

Huge generalization

vristang · Aug 3, 2005

gojonnygo said:
well the budget for this project is where ever i land up at the end. im just going to take it one pay check at a time. i decided on a 351w a while back but havent got one b/c i couldnt find a rollor block and didnt know how to do the conversion. it looked like there was three holes drilled in that pic. will a machine shop know what i was talkin about if i asked them to do it? shouldnt be too much extra to have them do it sence it has to go there anyway. i dont really have the money to go blow 6 grand + on a cobra motor right now but the day i do i will probably use it as a down payment on the whole car. i found a 351w in a junk yard by the house a couple weeks ago, maybe ill get a chance to go pull it out this weekend or next, if its still there.

THANKS to those of you who helped and keep em comming.

I brought the spider in when I dropped off the block. They did not mind doing it at all. A good/experienced machnist will know what your trying to do. This could be a way to eliminate questionable machine shops, if you have not selected one already.
If anything about the machinist seems fishy, run as fast as you can.

Just my opinion.

anyone build motors? i need to beat a honda.

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