anyone making mail-order tunes?

Punisher302 said:

so i got a tweecer (non-rt, but probably gonna send it off to get upgraded) in anticipation of the engine swap i'm doing next month ('01 explorer engine, comp cams n20 cam, + supporting mods) and was wondering...

are any of you guys doing any mail-order tuning? what i mean, is, what if i gave you the details of my combo--could you write a few tunes (street, race, daily driver, n20, etc) and email them to me so that i could just load them on my tweecer?

my bro-in-law is going to be tinkering with this, but just thought i'd ask to have that option.

Click to expand...

WOW Paul

I've thought and thought about this and have kinda had a hard time knowing where to start with a reply

There are a few I've seen that do it on the Tweecer or whatever site it is called these days. You may be able to find what you seek there

I can only speak for myself but I would not be all that comfortable trying to do that.

Sure ... I guess I could add some fuel, quicken & increase the spark curve, kill the tip in retard, and simple micky mouse stuff like that but it would be a guess at best for two main reasons as I see it.

1) no baseline data to start from
2) no after changes data to verify improvement

Again ... just speaking for me ... I just don't sit down and build a file for:
driving around town
the 1/4 mile
juice
etc
and then
call it good, perfect and ready to upload to the pcm
all in one shot
or
get it done on a first time effort.

Hey ... I am always happy to point peeps in the general direction
but
as for the fine details ............

I always tell them they will have to do that last little bit of tweecing on their own as each combo is always a bit different
and after all
its that last little bit that makes it YOUR custom tune

I do know all the Tweecer guys here would pitch in and help
but
you will have to first get yourself a bit grounded
and
then ask some specific Q's

Does any of this stuff make sense or help you Paul

Grady

No Prob Paul

I wouldn't call the thread worthless!

I'm gonna try and keep a perspective from a noobie in this reply

I'm gonna take some time and tell you how I think it would kinda go for you to get started with using the Tweecer method of self tuning.

Warning ... This is definitely gonna be long
so
you may not wanna stay for my twisted view point here

I myself don't have different files on different switch positions. I reckon it has turned out that way simply because my Stang is a weekend toy only.

I guess you could call my file
"The Aggressive Tune"
and it is in use at all times

That is how it is for MY application

As for YOUR application Paul

In my post above, I was not all that clear

I was kinda blown away with the concept of trying to build a tune for someone else because the idea of doing it keeps surfacing again and again no matter how many times I turn my back side to it, so I guess I was a bit distracted when I posted my reply.

Allow me be more specific with my thoughts if you please.

You asked for several files for different applications.

How YOU (not me or any other seasoned Tweecer user) would go about doing that is to first build a main file using as many default pcm values as possible. This first file would work reasonably well for general driving around town conditions. The focus here would be on everything BUT wot.

You then would break out the wide band and get things all setup for WOT.

At this point in time you could say you got your general, all around purpose, NA only, file built for driving around town.

You could then fine tune that main file. Your focus for that file would be on fuel/spark tables for a second file which you might call your 1/4 mile NA only tune.

You then could build other files for:
juice
low octane
etc

This will take some time and the amount you invest depends a good bit on the amount and kind of mods you've chosen.

You MUST remember this
You are not just tuning here
You're LEARNING to tune as you go at this point in time

Soooo ... having said that ... for an overview ........

how about we break it down a bit to some simple steps
and
guess at a rough ... very rough ... time line

How much time are we talking about

Different peeps have different viewpoints that is for sure

Those who wanna ... learn more will take more time
Those who wanna ... just make some noticeable improvements with drivability will not have as much time invested.

These days the info is WAY WAY more easy to find
so
that helps to cut down on the amount of time it takes for a noobie to start to see the big pic

I'm gonna now go out on a limb here

I'd say a 2 or 3 evenings after work or maybe a Saturday to get accustomed to using the Tweecer interface and EEC Analyzer.

I'd say about the same amount of time gathering the info needed to ... START ... NOT MASTERING ... the learning process. This is where you should copy and paste all info you find to your hard drive as you will be building your self tuner notes. You will come back to these over and over. You'll also be adding more info as you find it.

You now wanna read this stuff over SEVERAL times
with
the focus being on ... NOT ... learning anything specific

Just let it all kinda go in and keep an open mind about it all

IMHO ... If you let yourself ...........
you'll find you can quickly become overwhelmed
because
at this point in time ..........
not much of the info makes a whole lotta sense

This where different personalities become involved here
Some have a tolerance to persevere more than others

Only you can know that about yourself

It would seem to me .........
if one has a low tolerence in this kinda thing
they would be better off to take it in smaller steps
which will of course take more time

Bottom line is to NOT get too flustered
or
One may become defeated before they get very far

anyway .........

Time spent for this last step
Hard to say as some pick up stuff quicker than others

I don't know maybe a few evenings for some
or
maybe a week or so for others

Again ... your focus here is to ONLY START to understand
because
As soon as you are to that point ... your gonna BEGIN ............
the hands on part of your self taught, self tuning, education

Its kinda like when you were a little school boy
and the teacher told you
We are now gonna start the lab part of the class

It gets to be way more fun from this point on

You now start to change simple stuff like:
idle speed
tip in spark retard
fan temps on/off
etc

At this early point in time, you wanna drive around capturing data to your hard drive. You wanna do this many times with each time being done under a different driving condition and all the while keeping accurate notes about each dlog. This will give you an idea about how everything all ties in together like load, spark, commanded fuel ratio, and stuff like that.

These datalogging runs are gonna take you some time
but
they are SO VERY IMPORTANT in your learning process

Remember ... At this point in time ...
it is all about a condition we call Closed Loop
and
NOT about a condition we call Open Loop or WOT.

I'd say time wise, maybe several evenings or a week
because
not only do you wanna do the runs to gather up the data
you gotta analyze them as well

I can say this for certain
For most peeps
This is where it all kinda sorta starts to fall in place

Lookie Here! ... I've seen this over and over with many peeps

Those who have not put the above basics in place which enables themselves to gain a solid or basic knowledge database are usually not very happy self tuning campers

OR IN OTHER WORDS

They wanna improve something
but
They don't have a clue how it works

Hey ... its just part of the learning process
Don't forget this .........
You're trying to learn how the pcm does its thing

Once you understand the HOW of it

The WHY of making a change is a ... Piece O Cake

Come on Now! ... Ain't that how it is ... with most things you wanna learn all about ... You start with the basics and build on em a little at a time to the point where you start to see the light

anyway ... moving on with this novel

Lets sum up the Closed Loop portion of the tune!

Your gonna hose around with stuff like:
maf transfer
injector timing
inj values
air flow values
and
other stuff needed to obtain a stable idle and good Closed Loop driving conditions.

You ought to be able to find some noticeable Closed Loop drivability improvement in a few evenings

Of course it will take longer as you perfect the tune.

Heck some peeps who really get into the self tuning thing and wanna learn a good bit about it all will spend months and months learning stuff.

I've done just that very thing and I still learn stuff daily.
Its no biggie for me as I have a whole lotta fun with it all.

Now ... lets move on to the WOT portion of the tune

First things First with a little caution

Here is where you gotta be a bit careful
as
you can do damage here

You dial back the spark a good bit
and
your first efforts are for a target af ratio that is fat

This gives you more margin for error

You go slow and make small changes at the beginning and verify those changes with your dlogs until you learn all about what it means to have < and > airflow, pulse width, commanded ratio, and the like.

Specific info is not needed as it has all been said before. You basically work with the wide band, upper portion of the maf curve, and fuel tables.

When your wb matches your lambse values you are done with the basic WOT portion of the tune

At this point, you can change your ratio by simply changing fuel table values and the wb is not really needed for verification when you wanna go leaner or fatter

I'd say a ballpark time frame to set up your basic WOT af ratio would be a few evenings or maybe a Saturday.

Final WOT tuning would be to slowly bring back in some spark and fine tune the spark/fuel tables to EXACTLY what your combo likes.

As for different tunes ..............

You modify that main file to what application you desire for the new file.

Say you wanna use low grade octane gas ............

Common sense would dictate .........
a bit less spark
and
a maybe bit lower ratio.

All Rightie Then ... That was a bunch of stuff

Maybe it will make some kind of sense or help someone

Lets end this novel

Ya'll holler if something don't look quite right or make sense

Others may have done differently
but
Thats how I done did it

Gitter Done

Grady

Based on my year working on the MadPony, there are a few necessary tools you need:

1) TweecerRT
2) Eec Analyzer ( chart, view, and analyze logs. It will give you some good base numbers for injectors and MAF slopes).
3) Wideband necessary for WOT tuning.

Also make sure everything is the way its supposed to be. No air coming into the motor that is not passing through the MAF. IE breather caps for PCV.

Make sure your fuel pressure is set correctly 39 PSI with vacuum off and engine running. I made this mistake, by trusting a fuel pressure gauge I bought. Turns out it was off by 12psi.

Set your base timing to 10deg. If you need timing do it in the eec. If you change timing using the distributor, then you are also changing injector timing as the injector fire events are caculatid from the pip.

When starting tuning, use a vacuum gauge to get a good steady vacuum at idle, if not it will fluctuate the fuel pressure, and idle and part throttle tuning will be difficult.

Start out conservative, and pull some timing out using the global spark adder. Until you get the A/F mixture set the way you want it you dont want to go lean it higher loads.

And last but not least just like grady says, if you make changes, and it doesnt do what you think it should then either you dont understand that tuning parameter, or you have something wrong elsewhere in your tune.

ALWAYS remeber you can tune around any problem, so make sure you are not doing this. When I first started tuning I had a very small leak in my exhaust, it was sucking enough fresh air into the exhaust to mess up the readings on the o2's. Once I got the exhaust fixed, the car wouldnt run worth a damn. Good luck with it. I am usually on the eectuning forums, but they are down and I got bored and came here.

Based on my year working on the MadPony, there are a few necessary tools you need:

1) TweecerRT
2) Eec Analyzer ( chart, view, and analyze logs. It will give you some good base numbers for injectors and MAF slopes).
3) Wideband necessary for WOT tuning.

Also make sure everything is the way its supposed to be. No air coming into the motor that is not passing through the MAF. IE breather caps for PCV.

Make sure your fuel pressure is set correctly 39 PSI with vacuum off and engine running. I made this mistake, by trusting a fuel pressure gauge I bought. Turns out it was off by 12psi.

Set your base timing to 10deg. If you need timing do it in the eec. If you change timing using the distributor, then you are also changing injector timing as the injector fire events are caculatid from the pip.

When starting tuning, use a vacuum gauge to get a good steady vacuum at idle, if not it will fluctuate the fuel pressure, and idle and part throttle tuning will be difficult.

Start out conservative, and pull some timing out using the global spark adder. Until you get the A/F mixture set the way you want it you dont want to go lean it higher loads.

And last but not least just like grady says, if you make changes, and it doesnt do what you think it should then either you dont understand that tuning parameter, or you have something wrong elsewhere in your tune.

ALWAYS remeber you can tune around any problem, so make sure you are not doing this. When I first started tuning I had a very small leak in my exhaust, it was sucking enough fresh air into the exhaust to mess up the readings on the o2's. Once I got the exhaust fixed, the car wouldnt run worth a damn. Good luck with it. I am usually on the eectuning forums, but they are down and I got bored and came here.