Anything Else I Might Need?

Detroiit

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May 27, 2014
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As most of you know I'm installing a vortech supercharger in my 90 fox body. I was messing around with the air intake and realized I didn't have a air filter. Upon some searching I came up with what I need. A adapter for the 90 mm maf to fit a air filter and a air filter. My question is there anything else I might need that I can pick up now before the kit gets here so I don't have to run to the store a hundred times? I bought the v3 si kit and I have a Anderson power pipe. I already put in the fuel pump and injectors and installed my upper plenum. Will the kit come with a air filter? Any odds and ends you think I might need and can pick up before the kit arrives?
 
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Detroiit

Active Member
May 27, 2014
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Detroit MI.
Another question.. I went to the tuner today and he put a chip in my EEC IV. I told him what injectors and MAF I had. So the chip match's my combo but Does the maf need to be calibrated for the injectors or is the chip taking care of that? I had the chip put in so after the install I could drive it to him to get it tuned. I might be able to get a trailer so I wont have to drive it after the install. He said the chip will make it safe to drive just dont get heavy on the gas...
 

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
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Exactly, it will come with a filter. As far as the chip goes, if your tuner says to drive it with the base tune then go for it. Be careful not to put a lot of load on the motor or boost to it until it gets to the shop to be tuned. I'm sure that your base tune is very very conservative to make the car safe to drive
 

Detroiit

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May 27, 2014
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Detroit MI.
Exactly, it will come with a filter. As far as the chip goes, if your tuner says to drive it with the base tune then go for it. Be careful not to put a lot of load on the motor or boost to it until it gets to the shop to be tuned. I'm sure that your base tune is very very conservative to make the car safe to drive
Does the maf have to be calibrated for thr injectors or does the installed chip address this?
 

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
Mod Dude
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I personally like to see the maf and injectors match. It is possible; however, to have a chip burned to account for the larger injectors. Each tuner has their own preference.
 

Detroiit

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May 27, 2014
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I did some research and found some interesting tidbits on calibrating mafs for a certain injectors and not retuning the eec. Here is a small paragraph on what was explained let me kbow if this is accurate.
"In the aftermarket, you can purchase MAFs "calibrated" to specific injectors. These are sold as direct replacements into an OEM application when upgrading to larger injectors. MAFs calibrated in this way reduce the reported airflow to the EEC by the same percentage as the new injectors increase fuel flow. As a result, the EEC will produce a shorter pulse to the injectors for the same airflow (i.e. engine load) condition. While this seems like an ingenious way to avoid a professional retuning of the EEC, it is mis-informing (i.e. lying) to the EEC. It causes the EEC to believe things about the engine that are no longer true. As a result, there are unintended consequences. Those side-effects get more severe the larger the injector upgrade gets. For instance, an upgrade to 24lb injectors from 19s will likely be mild with little-to-no noticeable side-effects. However upgrading to 80lb injectors (and "calibrated" MAF) from stock 19s could easily result in issues related to cranking, idle, driveability, and excessive spark advance due to the EEC being misinformed about the true load of the engine. For EECs that also control the transmission, you may also find you are burning the transmission up by relying on the "calibration" of the MAF instead of getting the EEC properly retuned for the upgrade(s). When the EEC believes there's less-than-actual air flowing into the engine, it makes shifts softer than they should be."
 

TOOLOW91

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this is true but with a cal maf as I have aeen first hand it's helps on initial start and driving as well as the tuners job they don't have such a heavy correction to do
 

Noobz347

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Let's think about this for a moment. :thinking:

What is the MINIMUM injector pulse for a 19 lb injector?
What is the MINIMUM pulse for a 60 lb injector?

Answer: The MINIMUM pulse for a 60 lb injector is going to be a significantly smaller portion of it's overall ability. Because the injector is so much larger, it has a much lower minimum injector pulse than a smaller injector. The EEC doesn't know this. So...
If the stock EEC is expecting 19 lb injectors and sees that AFR is rich, what will it do? It will reduce the pulse to what it knows is the minimum... for a 19 lb injector. With a 60 lb injector in place, that's going to be a LOT more fuel.

Now let's say that I have a calibrated meter, stock EEC, and 60 lb injectors. This "calibrated meter" :rolleyes: fools the EEC into thinking there's a lot less air coming into the motor than what there actually is. Let's assume for a moment that I manage to get a good idle out of it (this is hard but let's assume). I blurp the throttle. The EEC sees this and instructs the injectors to increase pulse by 5%. So here's the question: What is 5% of the max volume of a 19 lb injector versus the max of a 60 lb injector? Tip-in problem anyone?

Then there are injector slopes. I (the EEC) am going to increase my duty cycle from from idle to WOT throttle. I do it in increments as the motor increases power out and RPM. Let's say that I'm going to increase pulse at a rate of 5% per 100 rpm. Again, what is the difference between that 5% coming form a 60 lb injector versus what is expected from a 19 lb injector?

Something else to consider is the resolution of the meter itself. The ideal setup would be to have a meter that uses the FULL 5 volt range to indicate ingested air. Since the meter is 'fooling' the EEC by taking a smaller sample of the air then resolution is diminished. Perhaps it's only using 2.5 of the available 5 volts and a change of 200 CFM of air is condensed into half a volt instead of across 2 volts. This makes small power changes much less accurate. This can also cause drivability issues.

Tuning is pretty much essential when the differences are this large. I've gotten away with 30 lb injectors and a ehem.... "calibrated" meter. Going much larger than that without a digital tune makes drivability the suxxorz.

Even if the car seems to run well with these setups they at at least need to be verified through dyno testing or data-logging.

The quoted post above is accurate.
 
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Detroiit

Active Member
May 27, 2014
305
60
38
Detroit MI.
Let's think about this for a moment. :thinking:

What is the MINIMUM injector pulse for a 19 lb injector?
What is the MINIMUM pulse for a 60 lb injector?

Answer: The MINIMUM pulse for a 60 lb injector is going to be a significantly smaller portion of it's overall ability. Because the injector is so much larger, it has a much lower minimum injector pulse than a smaller injector. The EEC doesn't know this. So...
If the stock EEC is expecting 19 lb injectors and sees that AFR is rich, what will it do? It will reduce the pulse to what it knows is the minimum... for a 19 lb injector. With a 60 lb injector in place, that's going to be a LOT more fuel.

Now let's say that I have a calibrated meter, stock EEC, and 60 lb injectors. This "calibrated meter" :rolleyes: fools the EEC into thinking there's a lot less air coming into the motor than what there actually is. Let's assume for a moment that I manage to get a good idle out of it (this is hard but let's assume). I blurp the throttle. The EEC sees this and instructs the injectors to increase pulse by 5%. So here's the question: What is 5% of the max volume of a 19 lb injector versus the max of a 60 lb injector? Tip-in problem anyone?

Then there are injector slopes. I (the EEC) am going to increase my duty cycle from from idle to WOT throttle. I do it in increments as the motor increases power out and RPM. Let's say that I'm going to increase pulse at a rate of 5% per 100 rpm. Again, what is the difference between that 5% coming form a 60 lb injector versus what is expected from a 19 lb injector?

Something else to consider is the resolution of the meter itself. The ideal setup would be to have a meter that uses the FULL 5 volt range to indicate ingested air. Since the meter is 'fooling' the EEC by taking a smaller sample of the air then resolution is diminished. Perhaps it's only using 2.5 of the available 5 volts and a change of 200 CFM of air is condensed into half a volt instead of across 2 volts. This makes small power changes much less accurate. This can also cause drivability issues.

Tuning is pretty much essential when the differences are this large. I've gotten away with 30 lb injectors and a ehem.... "calibrated" meter. Going much larger than that without a digital tune makes drivability the suxxorz.

Even if the car seems to run well with these setups they at at least need to be verified through dyno testing or data-logging.

The quoted post above is accurate.
very well said!
 
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