Are the Super 40s a big scam??

01'TRUE BLUE GT · Jan 18, 2004

Are the Super 40s a big scam?? I now have the truth!

Looks like it to me, here's why: Yesterday I got my car up on ramps and was all fired-up about installing my new Super 40s until I started comparing them to the Delta 40s already in my American Thunder system. I measured both of them with a tape and held a Super 40 up against a Delta 40 and they were both THE EXACT SAME SIZE!!! 13.5" long by 10" wide and both 5" thick. WTF?!?! I even compared all the spot welds showing through both cases and they looked identical to me so I decided to not waste my time installing them. They even have the same part #'s as my current Delta 40s (952548).

The only difference that I could see was that the Super 40s are painted black instead of silver. How can Flowmaster get away with this ... unless I'm overlooking something? I even talked to someone in the tech dept. at Flowmaster before I ordered these. I first asked him if the current Delta 40s are the same size as the ones offered in the C/B and he told me yes. I then asked what made the Super 40s so much better and he told me they're an inch taller with a better flow path radius. How can that be if they both measure 5" tall and the spot welds looked the same to me. I obviously can't see the guts of them, but you can see where all the spot welds are holding the chambers and baffles in place through the outside of both cases.

Needless to say I'm pissed about this whole thing! I even went through the trouble of ordering stainless clamps and new flow tubes so I didn't have to butcher my A/T C/B to install these. I was just going to remove my current mufflers and flow tubes (Flowmaster welds the mufflers to the flow tubes) then bolt the new ones in and then go to a shop and have hangers welded to the back of each muffler and be done. I hate to say this and maybe I missed something, but if I painted my current mufflers black it would look like I have the new Super 40s.

I've been a die-hard Flowmaster fan for years and this was a big surprise to me and I hope I'm wrong. Have any of you actually compared the Super 40s to the Delta 40s? Right now I feel as if I just wasted my money and should send them back. What do you think?

wickedgt70 · Jan 18, 2004

Until you open them up you don't know anything about them. Try to find a diagram of the guts and see what the differences are.

GinoGT · Jan 18, 2004

Who cares what the casing looks like, how do they sound? If they have a different sound, then I guess it's not a scam.

jrc_03_gt · Jan 18, 2004

I love the original 40 series. They sound awesome!!!!!!

01'TRUE BLUE GT · Jan 18, 2004

wickedgt70 said:
Until you open them up you don't know anything about them. Try to find a diagram of the guts and see what the differences are.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. I know I can't see the internals, but from looking at the spot welds and both muffler cases they seem to look the same to me. As much as I'd like to cut one open, I'm not going to destroy a brand new muffler that cost me over $100 a piece. Why doesn't Flowmaster offer a cut-away view of the Delta 40s and the Super 40s side by side? All their info about these is very vague on their site, they don't actually show us the technical differences between the two. They just tell us they flow better, sound deeper blah, blah, blah than the current Delta 40s.

Like I already said ... I've been one of their loyal customers for years and always loved their products, but now I have to wonder ... What's all the hype about the Super 40s? They look identical to what is already in my American Thunder C/B. I was all excited to put these on, but now I'm afraid they'll just sound the same as what I already have. Then they'll probably tell me I can't return them because I ran them. That's why I don't even want to put them on until I can find out more about this.

GinoGT · Jan 18, 2004

So you want them to paint racing stripes on them or make them heart shaped or what? Put them on the car and find out.

CottonBurnerz · Jan 18, 2004

Call Flows and ask for proof of their differentation? That's the only way I could think of.. or put them in and find out..

01'TRUE BLUE GT · Jan 18, 2004

CottonBurnerz said:
Call Flows and ask for proof of their differentation? That's the only way I could think of.. or put them in and find out..

I'm definately going to give them another call tomorrow. I did talk to them before I ordered these and they told me what I posted above. I'll have to see if they'll take them back once I install them ... that's my main concern right now. I don't want to be stuck with these if I can't tell a difference after I get them on.

JPsNOVI2kGT · Jan 18, 2004

I suspected all along that the American Thunder catback for 99-03 Gt's came with super 40's. The catback wasn't available until after the Force 2 had been out for a while, which leads me to believe that they were waiting to get these mufflers finished so they would come with the American thunder kit. Also, after I got my kit a buddy of mine noticed the case dimensions were like the big block series mufflers ( 5" x 11"). So we called up flowmaster and asked for part numbers on Big Block 40 series and this style never existed.

Now shortly after they came out with the Super 40 series. Same size case. Now 01' True Blue GT confirmed that the part numbers, welds, etc. are the same so obviously they are the same mufflers. I would definatly send them back. Also, if the Flowmaster tech guy said that all Delta 40's are the larger case size now he is confused cause a friend of mine ordered an American Thunder kit for his 92LX in the spring last year and the mufflers he got were the 4" x 9" case.

mike2858 · Jan 18, 2004

i would think they are the same. how can 2 different parts share the same part #.

01'TRUE BLUE GT · Jan 19, 2004

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with Flowmaster's tech dept. and confirmed I was right all along. The Super 40s ARE a big scam if you already have the 5" X 10" cases in your American Thunder kit. You will not benefit from these unless you're replacing them with the old 4" X 9.75" mufflers. Sure is funny how they fail to mention that in their advertising, huh? I guess they think we're all idiots and won't actually check them out when we get them. WRONG! He also told me they wanted to make a statement with the American Thunder kits so they started using the bigger mufflers, I don't know how long or when they started using them however. It would've been nice if they let everyone know that these are the same mufflers in the C/B, but they didn't.

I told him what I found and he didn't deny anything and then he tries to tell me he just recently found out about this himself, yeah right. I told him their advertising is very misleading and he tells me all I had to do was ask. Well, I did ask someone before I ordered these and was told that the 4" X 9.75" Delta 40s you can buy individually are the same ones that come in the kit, that was a lie. The American Thunder already has the Super 40s included. He asked me who I spoke with originally and I failed to get a name and he told me I should've.

He said he would try to get the word out about this, then apologized and said he was sorry for the inconvenience and for me to send them back for a refund. I still think this is a crock to spray black paint on the same mufflers offered in the kit and turn around and try to market them as "Super". I think that is short for Super Sucker for anyone who actually buys them trying to improve upon the American Thunder system. Needless to say mine are going back because I'm not a sucker.

I still love Flowmaster's sound and always will, but I will now think twice about buying their products again after seeing how they treat life-long customers that helped make them what they are today. I thought I would get the word out to my fellow enthusiasts because I don't see Flowmaster being in a big hurry to fess-up to this.

jas142 · Jan 19, 2004

Guys, I hate to break it to you but ALL flowmasters are scams. The name itself is an oxymoron when you cut a flowmaster open and look inside. They flow horribly. I *DO* love the sound, they sound amazing. But they are RESTRICTIVE as hell. If you want a muffler thats gonna flow better, go for a straight through design (Bullet or magnapack)

blackstang00 · Jan 19, 2004

01'TRUE BLUE GT said:
UPDATE: I just got off the phone with Flowmaster's tech dept. and confirmed I was right all along. The Super 40s ARE a big scam if you already have the 5" X 10" cases in your American Thunder kit. You will not benefit from these unless you're replacing them with the old 4" X 9.75" mufflers. Sure is funny how they fail to mention that in their advertising, huh? I guess they think we're all idiots and won't actually check them out when we get them. WRONG! He also told me they wanted to make a statement with the American Thunder kits so they started using the bigger mufflers, I don't know how long or when they started using them however. It would've been nice if they let everyone know that these are the same mufflers in the C/B, but they didn't.

I told him what I found and he didn't deny anything and then he tries to tell me he just recently found out about this himself, yeah right. I told him their advertising is very misleading and he tells me all I had to do was ask. Well, I did ask someone before I ordered these and was told that the 4" X 9.75" Delta 40s you can buy individually are the same ones that come in the kit, that was a lie. The American Thunder already has the Super 40s included. He asked me who I spoke with originally and I failed to get a name and he told me I should've.

He said he would try to get the word out about this, then apologized and said he was sorry for the inconvenience and for me to send them back for a refund. I still think this is a crock to spray black paint on the same mufflers offered in the kit and turn around and try to market them as "Super". I think that is short for Super Sucker for anyone who actually buys them trying to improve upon the American Thunder system. Needless to say mine are going back because I'm not a sucker.

I still love Flowmaster's sound and always will, but I will now think twice about buying their products again after seeing how they treat life-long customers that helped make them what they are today. I thought I would get the word out to my fellow enthusiasts because I don't see Flowmaster being in a big hurry to fess-up to this.

i just spoke to the tech dept too(5:10 pm est.). he told me that the american syst was 4" thick and the spr's were 5" thick,and that was the difference between the two. 2 months ago when these were going to be released i called to see if it was available in a c/b system he told me no. its just available in muffler form. wtf is that? i'm getting ready to buy the spr's soon. my system is stock.now i don't know what to do.

01'TRUE BLUE GT · Jan 19, 2004

blackstang00 said:
i just spoke to the tech dept too(5:10 pm est.). he told me that the american syst was 4" thick and the spr's were 5" thick,and that was the difference between the two. 2 months ago when these were going to be released i called to see if it was available in a c/b system he told me no. its just available in muffler form. wtf is that? i'm getting ready to buy the spr's soon. my system is stock.now i don't know what to do.

I've had the American Thunder on my car for about 5 months now. Trust me, the mufflers that came with the kit are 5" thick. They told me the same thing you said right before I ordered my Super 40s ... it's a lie. If you have the A/T system you already have the Super 40s unless they changed something and failed to mention it. That's why I'm so pi$$ed right now ... I thought I would be improving my A/T system when in fact I just bought the same damn mufflers I already have on the car! The only difference is the pair I bought don't have the hangers welded to the case and they splashed some black paint on them. What's so super about that???

claytucc3 · Jan 19, 2004

Wow I amlmost ordered some for my A/T catback I am glad I didn't

blackstang00 · Jan 19, 2004

01'TRUE BLUE GT said:
I've had the American Thunder on my car for about 5 months now. Trust me, the mufflers that came with the kit are 5" thick. They told me the same thing you said right before I ordered my Super 40s ... it's a lie. If you have the A/T system you already have the Super 40s unless they changed something and failed to mention it. That's why I'm so pi$$ed right now ... I thought I would be improving my A/T system when in fact I just bought the same damn mufflers I already have on the car! The only difference is the pair I bought don't have the hangers welded to the case and they splashed some black paint on them. What's so super about that???

i feel ya. maybe i'll just get the a/t. i mean out of all the sounds of all the exhaust systems i've heard,imo the flows soun the best. mags aren't deep enough, bassani is way to much, slp's suck.maybe i'll check out sound bites of the ravin mufflers. i donno...well atleast they are taking them back bro.

JPsNOVI2kGT · Jan 19, 2004

Thanks for confirming the facts. I understand your anger for the inconvenience.

GinoGT · Jan 19, 2004

Wow, that is surprising.

*Kicks back and listens to his Magnaflows*

Venom4.6 · Jan 20, 2004

No complaints with my "Original" Flows.

CTGrey02 · Jan 20, 2004

claytucc3 said:
Wow I amlmost ordered some for my A/T catback I am glad I didn't

Might want to just measure yours first rather than just assuming.

Are the Super 40s a big scam??

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