ARP Head bolt torque? asap...

[latham83]

Hey....ok my ARP instructions say to torque their BOLTS to 65 ft/lbs with their moly lube....im using thumper heads..so they are stock ported..not aluminum..
Now I did not buy their moly lube or sealer..because i read in a magazine and from various ppl that Permatex Formagasket #2 worked the best on them..it stays tacky...ok so I used this on ALL the threads of every bolt..more heavily on the water jackets..and torqued all the bolts to about 70ft/lbs....
is this enough??? im reading ppl take theres to like 80?!! but i was told to follow arps intructions..but im not using their moly shiit anyway so..i would assume the formagasket is the same basic 'Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me' so is 70 lbs enough?

IF it needs to be more is it ok to torque them more with my rockers and pushrods all set already? i just preload the lifters and primed it today?

 

[latham83]

???

 

[Michael Yount]

You'll probably be fine. It won't hurt to back them off slightly one by one, and pull them up to 75-80 if you want to. You'll have to back them off a bit in order to over come the starting friction to get them turning and not exceed the torque you're trying to set. By the way, the ARP moly thread sealer doesn't set up - stays pliable; it's the best I've ever used. Next time, try it. It significantly reduces the friction of the threads so the clamping force can be achieved at much lower torques.

 

[SwAmPf0x]

The torque spec depends on 2 things...the fastener you use and the lubricant/sealer you use, since your not using their stuff you'll just have to guess on the spec now, I ran into this when I bought my ARP's also, thats why I told you to buy their lube/sealer in your other thread...good luck

 

[latham83]

yeeea i know but i read an article on someone that installs heads all the time and said that formagasket number 2 was the best he ever tried out of like how many...so i wanted to use that...i mean 70 lbs seems like a decent amount i mean its not gonna blow a head gasket for 10 more lbs is it?? the top bolts dont need 10 more do they?? thast only if u use oil for them...?

 

[Michael Yount]

Like I said, if you got good clean pulls up to 70, and the pattern is correct, you'll probably be ok. But here's the deal - we don't know what impact the thread sealer you used has on the torque values - there's no way around that. That's why I try to use what they recommend, then I know what I'm dealing with. I can't believe that 'formagasket number 2', whatever that is, is gonna be a better lubricant for the threads than oil or moly lube. But I'm guessing at that. If it's a worse lubricant - that is, it creates more friction, not less, then you'd need MORE torque than spec to achieve the proper clamping force, not less. I looked at my ARP spec sheet and they called for 85 ft-lbs. on cast iron heads lubed with oil/70 ft-lbs. for cast iron lubed wiht moly/60 ft-lbs. for aluminum heads lubed with moly. You've got 70 ft-lbs. on cast iron lubed with who-knows-what. So you see - it's all a big guess. If you're worried enough about it to post, then I'd go back and put some more torque on them. But you seem to be trying to talk us into leaving it the way it is. If that's what you want to do, go for it.

 

[SwAmPf0x]

The theory on the top bolts needing 10 more ft/lbs is to compensate for the lower intake being bolted to the head and pulling up, I just followed ARP's directions and didnt have any problems, 65 ft/lbs all the way around

I would GUESS you would need more torque using permetex, I'll let you decide how much more

 

[Michael Yount]

SwampFox - yeah, my ARP torque spec guide makes no mention of different torque values for the different length bolts - go figure. I used the ARP moly-thread sealer and torqued my alum. heads to 65; it's been fine.

 

[latham83]

ok i understand what you guys are talking about...is it OK though to go ahead and torque my arp's to 5 or 10 more pounds after i just preloaded the lifters, rockers and primed it? I didn't want to mess that up ya know...i would assume its ok?
hey arp's arnt torque to yield are they?

 

[Michael Yount]

Seems like you want your cake and eat it too; if you're worried about the torques, torque on, and then recheck your rockers - although I doubt they'll change. If you don't want to recheck the rockers, then go ahead and crank it up. You're gonna have to make a choice - you can't have it both ways. Oh, ARP's aren't torque to yield - so you don't have to worry about that. ARP tells me they design those 5.0L head bolts to be at about 75% of yield when they are torqued to their spec.