auto or manual fastest?

[bigred111]

hey guys i know with the camaro there auto is faster for drag than the manual but also in a lot of japanese ricer cars like my pos im sry i bought the auto is slower cause it shifts slow

wat do u guys think will be the case with the new trannys auto or manual faster for drag and the manual is always gonna have higher top speed right?

 

[351CJ]

The 05 auto will surprise people with how fast it will be. The 05 auto is a 5 speed with a 3.23:1 first gear ratio verses the 2.84:1 first gear ratio that the 04 has.

But there are a lot of other factors in how fast an auto accelerates such as the torque converter stall speed and its maximum torque multiplication.

A manual will not necessasarily have a higher top speed again it all depends on the gearing and other factors.

 

[trickfull25tx]

This arguement always trips me out. yeah i perfer a stick cause its just fun and i perfer it when passing but in relatity. most people cant drive a stick. a auto is just as fast most of the time with todays trannies.

BTW i think that is part of the reason the lightning has got the rep for a fast truck. its a auto. if it was manual you would have people driving in a very broad range of ets. just like the srt10. fact is the srt10 is a faster truck in capable hands(even if its .1-.3 tenths) just mosty people cant drive it.

please people stop spreading the myth that a manual is so much faster than a auto in the real world is not that much faster.

like i say i still perfer a stick for the fun factor though.

Chris

 

[Red35th]

Considering that an auto 99-04 is only .2 slower (average) than a 5-speed, I'd imagine that with the fact that you have one more forward gear it will be almost dead even.

I can't imagine how much faster my car would be if it was a 4+1 instead of a 3+1.

All you 5 speed guys just imagine shifting into 4th after 2nd gear.

 

[JSSuper455]

The auto GT is only .2 slower (99+ years) hmmm it felt a LOT slower than that.

In the old days the auto would almost always beat-out a manual because they shifted quickly and near perfect. Nowadays, fords auto has been ill matched to a performance machine with the lazy, slow shifting and improper shift points.

However, I'm hoping the new 5-spd automatic will help with those issues and we will see better shift points and quicker shifts. I'm actually exited to try a new auto GT out on a test drive, if it works as well as I hope I'm probably going to take ownership.

There are a couple of factors besides 1st gear ratio. Axle ratios, All 05 GT auto cars will come with 3.31:1 gearing (almost the same as the current GT with 3.27:1) However, the GT 5-spd car will come with 3.55:1 same as the current Mach-1 wich will help in it in the accelleration arena.. It may or may not help its top speed though.

 

[Rocket Sauce]

Lets not forget that our wonderful pony cars are not just meant for the drag.... Handling, cornering, and road racing is at least half the fun of owning one of these cars. A manual will always be better (downshifting, etc.) on a road course or in a real life race. How many true race cars have automatics, and i am not talking about sequential manuals. And not only that, what beats the fun of shifting?

 

[spectravp]

Another factor to consider with automatics is the computer. They limit horsepower at shift points to make the shifts smoother. In the real world, it means a nice ride. On a track, it can cost you time. Also, they limit tthe horsepower because the most stress a tranny has is at acceleration and shift points. By cutting the horsepower at the shift points they extend the life of the tranny. Kenne Belle has on their site a chart that shows the 99-04 automatic horsepower drop offs.

 

[Red35th]

I'll stand by my statement of a 2 tenths difference between an auto and a stick.

In the 99-up on a stock car the shiftpoints are almost perfect (5500rpms), while not bone jarringly quick the shifts aren't that bad.

Just because it FELT slower doesn't mean a whole lot.

Also to my knowledge the EEC Vs do not lower hp during shifts. I assume you mean that at the time of the shift the computer will back timing off, not sure else how it could lower the cars hp. I think you are refering to rumors about the 05. I could be wrong, but I have yet to find where the car lowers hp during shifts (using Caledit
software).


But I digress, I am of the opinion that the 05 autos will be extremely close to the 5-speeds in the quartermile. Perhaps not so much in Trap speed, but ETs will be within a tenth. This is unless Ford tries to ruin the auto and takes the route it did with the Mach 1 (really low shiftpoints).

 

[DBMSTNG]

there have been auto 99+ GT's that have hit 14.0. manuals have gone 13.7. that's not a big difference. increase the line pressure in the 4r70w and you should pick up a .1.

 

[spectravp]

I am absolutely positive about the HP reduction at shift points. I will try to dig up some documentation to corroberate my claim.

 

[351CJ]

Also to my knowledge the EEC Vs do not lower hp during shifts. I assume you mean that at the time of the shift the computer will back timing off, not sure else how it could lower the cars hp. I think you are refering to rumors about the 05. I could be wrong, but I have yet to find where the car lowers hp during shifts (using Caledit
software).

The new Ford PCM that is used on the Lincoln LS, T-Bird and new F-150 does back off timing when the auto trannie shifts. The 05 Stang will use a similar (if not identical) PCM system. The PCM also controls shifting of the 5R55S auto trannie.

I had the opportunity to talk with a Ford engineer who works on transmission calibration (shift points, shift speed etc). She told me that it is a constant battle between the engineers who want fast, crisp shifts and the marketing department who usually wants soft sloppy shifts be cause they think customers want smooth mushy cars.

 

[PONY XPRESS]

I just bought my wife a Jag "S" type with the 300HP V8 & 6 speed auto. (Similar chassis to the new 05' Pony) I got to tell you it is the best automatic I have ever driven. Car comes out hard, pulls strong, nice shifts, smooth as silk & will automatically downshift in the twisties & hilly roads. Have surprised a few ricers a Germans in the short time we have owned it. May even be faster then my 99'GT. Will have to challange the wife to a race.

 

[rich8566]

I am absolutely positive about the HP reduction at shift points. I will try to dig up some documentation to corroberate my claim.

I owned a 1994 Infiniti Q45. The 278hp V-8's computer did reduce hp during upshifts to protect the tranny.

 

[RICKS]

Almost every "true" automatic I know of lends a higher rate of "parasitic drag" to the driveline. In layman's terms, they eat more horsepower in their operation than manuals, mostly due to all the fluid dynamics going on in the tranny and torque converter. I'm no transmission guru, by a longshot, so excuse me if my terminology is fubar. But I can't believe nobody here has bothered to mention this, as it's the primary reason autos run a tick or two slower, despite the fact that they shift so quickly, even compared to speed shifting. It's the parasitic drag. The Ford AOD was NOTORIOUS for being a boat anchor of a tranny as it pertains to driveline drag, worse than most other autos used by other automakers. Autos are popular in drag racing due to the benefit of consistency, an absolute must in bracket racing. Most drag cars have electronic delay boxes that regulate launch RPM, converter lockup, and reaction delay, all at the pressing and releasing of buttons. You can't get that done with a traditional stick. But you can usually put more power to the rear wheels with a standard gearbox. When I bought my '93 6-speed Corvette brand-new, I hit the dragstrip bone-paper-filter-stock at 1,700 miles. Ran a best of 13.41 @ 107.2. There were three stock '93 automatic 'vettes at the track that night. The best they could put down was 13.68 @ 104.0, which was in a heads up race against me (timeslip I keep in my desk ) I've found Mustangs to always have a 2-3 tenth gap between manual and auto, and a significant difference in trap-speed. Anybody who thinks that's "not alot", has never been whipped on the street by a car that's 3 tenths faster, and certainly doesn't drag race seriously. 2-3 tenths is ALOT. This new auto in the '05 Mustang is far superior tranny to those it's replacing from the SN95 era. So, it will tighten the gap a bit. BUT, if you want the quickest ride possible, you better check the "manual" box on your order form, unless you shift like an uncoordinated one-legged donkey (which many people do).

 

[spectravp]

Well, you could always go to a ratchet shifter. Clearly not stock; you would have to change your tranny. But a ratchet shifter gives you the immediate shift response of the automatic, but the control of a manual... it's essentially, a clutchless shift. It is not tiptronic, this all manual; mechanical. I have never seen time comparisons, but I'm willing to bet the semi-automatic ratchet shifter configuration is equal to a traditional stick, if not faster.

 

[RICKS]

I have never seen time comparisons, but I'm willing to bet the semi-automatic ratchet shifter configuration is equal to a traditional stick, if not faster.

Ratchet shifters don't cause a car to shift any faster than just leaving it in drive, it just hands control of "when" the shift happens to the driver, that's all. It's just a a fancy shift mechanism running a manual valve-body ("manual" in the context I just used it has nothing to do with manual transmissions, it pertains to the use of manual valve bodies to manual change gears on an automatic transmission). Again, it's the difference in drag on the driveline that hampers autos vs. manuals. You can dyno a stick shift car on a chassis dyno, swap out the manual trans for an auto, and it will dyno slightly less at the rear wheels, not just at the shift points, but across the board, regardless of what kind of B&M super-ratchet-ola-slap-o-matic-power-punch shifter you've got bolted to the tranny. The speed of the shift is determined by adjustments of fluid pressures inside the transmissions, or the inherent design of the transmission. On old cars, you could buy "shift kits" to go inside and modify a few things that affected fluid movement and pressure to speed up the shift speed and increase firmness. Today, you can adjust many of those variables through the computer. But the speed of shifts has zero to do with the type of shifter used.

 

[66Satellite]

The auto GT is only .2 slower (99+ years) hmmm it felt a LOT slower than that.

In the old days the auto would almost always beat-out a manual because they shifted quickly and near perfect. Nowadays, fords auto has been ill matched to a performance machine with the lazy, slow shifting and improper shift points.

However, I'm hoping the new 5-spd automatic will help with those issues and we will see better shift points and quicker shifts. I'm actually exited to try a new auto GT out on a test drive, if it works as well as I hope I'm probably going to take ownership.

There are a couple of factors besides 1st gear ratio. Axle ratios, All 05 GT auto cars will come with 3.31:1 gearing (almost the same as the current GT with 3.27:1) However, the GT 5-spd car will come with 3.55:1 same as the current Mach-1 wich will help in it in the accelleration arena.. It may or may not help its top speed though.

Hey JSSuper455, PM me the details on the Dart vert you have for sale. Thanks.

 

[Red35th]

I wonder why Ford feels it needs to protect it's new automatic by backing off timing at the shift points????

That doesn't bode well for mods. I was almost positive that the 99-04 GT computers didn't touch any engine parameter at the shiftpoints.

Anyway, the stick will be a little faster. But if a 4 speed auto is only 2 tenths off a 5-speed, I really think a 5-speed auto will be just about right there. I say this knowing very little about the new auto going in the 05s. With the way the 05 is going it will prob be a disappointment.

I'm just here to ensure there is no unfair auto bashing.

 

[bigred111]

ook two questions how come ford couldnt just put the jag 6 speed auto in there they already have them but guess they cant have a much better auto than manual also

iv never owned a manual but would really like to but im left handed i was wondering if theres any leftys driving manuals and if u have any problems shifting and how hard it was learning with the less coordination in your right shifting hand

 

[M1Rifle]

Manual = more fun to drive

'nuff said.