AWD EcoBoost Mustang in 2012???

cougar_68 · Sep 11, 2009

I haven’t really seen this discussed here, so I’m bringing it up. I’m sure I will probably take some heat, but here goes…I want an All Wheel Drive mustang.

I live in Northeast Indiana and cannot have a Mustang as a daily driver. I know some of you guys are driving your Mustangs year-round and in the snow, but I don’t have the kind of control and/or patience it takes to achieve such a feat.

There is a lot of speculation of what the Mustang’s drive train will be in the coming years. One line-up I have seen is EcoBoost V6 for the base, 5.0L for the GT and 5.4SC or 6.2L for the Cobra. Now, whether any of this is true or not, neither I nor anyone else can be completely sure, so I don’t want an argument about that. It has already been done in other threads, go there and argue.

What I do know is that the SHO and the MKS are both offered with only AWD. Granted, these were FWD cars to begin with, I think it would be awesome if the Mustang were AWD also.

So with all that being said, what do you guys think of the idea of an AWD Mustang? Not necessarily will it happen, but would you be for or against and why?

SS02 · Sep 11, 2009

Well, Ill take some heat with ya.....Im the popular guy just so you know Anyway I think it wouldnt be to far fetched, can you imagine a Mustang that is all wheel drive and has 400hp at its disposal? Although only the 3.5 is AWD compatible, the Eco-Boost engine can easily be pushed passed the 400hp mark.

So Why not I say, maybe introduce it as a Special Edition V6 model and see where it goes. Would improve performance to a level the competition would either have to adapt to, or just concede to !!!!

Top Speed · Sep 12, 2009

What makes the Mustang unique is its RWD layout. There's no such thing as an AWD Muscle Car. As long as AWD was an option and not something standard, I guess I wouldn't have an issue with it, but there's no way I'd ever buy an AWD Mustang.

The Fang · Sep 12, 2009

another problem would be cost i would think. I kinda like the Idea tho for you chaps up in the snow. A bare bones 6r is already to much imo.

Sa-When · Sep 12, 2009

Top Speed said:
What makes the Mustang unique is its RWD layout. There's no such thing as an AWD Muscle Car. As long as AWD was an option and not something standard, I guess I wouldn't have an issue with it, but there's no way I'd ever buy an AWD Mustang.

x2

cougar_68 · Sep 12, 2009

Don't get me wrong; I would in no way want to replace the GT with the AWD. The RWD Mustang is something that belongs and should not go away.

I was thinking of how awesome it is going to be when I win the lottery though. I'm going to buy a Taurus SHO and a 2010 GT, swap drive trains and have a SHO worthy Taurus and my AWD Mustang.

Also note that the mustang is already 1000 pounds lighter than the Taurus. So any performance numbers given for the SHO should increase with the Mustang.

TheVat · Sep 13, 2009

For me, no on AWD and a ecoboost V6.
1. Rwd gives you a push versus a fwd/awd pull. I don't road race or drift on a track, but a well executed power oversteer turn is a rewarding feeling.
2. A smaller displacement twin turboed 6, although capable, doesn't produce the sound that an 8 will (mustang v8 has an exhaust tone no other engine can make. GM, Chry v8's sound alike to me).

3. Cost. Mustang faithful (not all, but most) would not be happy with an auto as the sole transmission. Ford would have to develop a new trans.

4. FIt. I'm no engineer, but last time I was under my car, it seemed pretty packed under there.

I could go on, but the 05+ Mustang setup has my heart. The engineers seemed to produce a car that I find no faults with. AWD is safer. A twin turbo v6 in theory will return a little better fuel mileage. Not that my opinion will matter much, but I will not buy a turboed v6 AWD mustang.

All-Or-Nothing · Sep 13, 2009

400hp, AWD, TT, man I would drive it. That would be a killer combo, plus with some tuning the numbers would increase.

If Ford did it I would be first in line.

cougar_68 · Sep 13, 2009

I too would rather have a RWD V8. Like you said the way it drives and the sound is just something to behold. I also agree with you about the only option for transmission being Automatic, but I have two words for you paddle-shifters.

However, due to the fact that I would have to park the RWD V8 4-6 months out of the year, if there is an option for a Mustang that has comparable performance numbers, comparable price and AWD, that is the Mustang I’m picking.

Supposedly the SHO will do the quarter in 14.2 seconds and 0-60 in about 5.7. The SHO is about 1,000 lbs. heavier. I used a quarter mile and 0-60 calculator and it dropped about a second off of each time. I know this is just estimated, but that’s 13.2 and 4.7 for the quarter and 0-60, with AWD EcoBoost. In the same publication they say the ’10 Mustang will do the quarter in 14.0 and 0-60 in 5.3. Too me that seems under estimated, but at any rate the AWD EcoBoost would be comparable to V8 RWD. Numbers will be even better when we figure out how to get the EcoBoost past 400 HP like SS02 mentioned!

Considering the price difference between a regular Taurus and a SHO is between $9-10K, I think the price could be comparable to a GT. The difference between a V6 and the GT Premium is also about $10K. Now that I notice that, I think someone already said it, but we would probably have to still have the regular RWD V6 as an option. I also think they would have to keep it in the low $30K’s because then they can still “compete” with cars like WRX STI and EVO (those cars are 4cyl and 4 door, but still).

As a bonus, you get slightly improved fuel economy. Which isn’t really something I have thought about until just now. Although I’m sure you have to run high-octane fuel. What octane is required for the GT?

walter · Sep 13, 2009

Unless you're planning to redesign completely the car's layout to be based on an Independent rear suspension you'll have to have an AWD system which is more or less based on a 4x4 layout with a traditional separate transfer case then with a transaxle/transmission hybrid like most imports use.

That would just about kill your power to weight ratio and most likely make the car handle like a tank. I thought about the idea years ago.... and actually submitted it to Saleen (hey I was 15 at the time) never got an answer. Now I know better

Awd systems are really meant for small nimble 4cyl turbo platform then for full blown cars (with the exception of Nissan's ATTESSA-ETS system I think) just look at the cars that currently offer that. The WRX and the EVO are always on top of their game in terms of power and handling the R32 (VW) is not and it only has a slightly larger and heaver V6 platform. The Mustang would do much worse.

exwifegotstang · Sep 13, 2009

Any octane for a GT unless you have a tune that requires a specific octane due to mods. I had a 68 Cougar, C code. sold it about 2 years ago, stupid me.

cougar_68 · Sep 13, 2009

walter said:
Unless you're planning to redesign completely the car's layout to be based on an Independent rear suspension you'll have to have an AWD system which is more or less based on a 4x4 layout with a traditional separate transfer case then with a transaxle/transmission hybrid like most imports use.

Do they still offer IRS on any of the mustang models? I think one of the old Cobra Mustangs was IRS? I wouldn't be surprised if Ford already had an IRS setup and just hasn't spit it out for a production car.

walter said:
Awd systems are really meant for small nimble 4cyl turbo platform then for full blown cars (with the exception of Nissan's ATTESSA-ETS system I think) just look at the cars that currently offer that. The WRX and the EVO are always on top of their game in terms of power and handling the R32 (VW) is not and it only has a slightly larger and heaver V6 platform. The Mustang would do much worse.

The 4cyl EcoBoost (2.0L) is only 275 hp. That would be a drastic reduction compared to the V6. Don't think I would bother with that. Actually I was just thinking, earlier today, how much it would suck if ford put the 4cyl EcoBoost instead of the 6 and didn't do AWD.

cougar_68 · Sep 13, 2009

exwifegotstang said:
Any octane for a GT unless you have a tune that requires a specific octane due to mods. I had a 68 Cougar, C code. sold it about 2 years ago, stupid me.

Still have my cougar...maybe I should make IT AWD. Really couldn't drive that in the winter. Isn't really designed to battle the salt. Plus I would be afraid of other drivers. Replacement parts aren’t too easy to come buy and insurance would probably total it, even if someone just bumped into it.

walter · Sep 13, 2009

cougar_68 said:
Do they still offer IRS on any of the mustang models? I think one of the old Cobra Mustangs was IRS? I wouldn't be surprised if Ford already had an IRS setup and just hasn't spit it out for a production car.

The 4cyl EcoBoost (2.0L) is only 275 hp. That would be a drastic reduction compared to the V6. Don't think I would bother with that. Actually I was just thinking, earlier today, how much it would suck if ford put the 4cyl EcoBoost instead of the 6 and didn't do AWD.

The new edge Cobras had an IRS setup. It was very heavy compared to other manufacturer but it did give the car the extra handling finesse the GT didn't have. The S197 were intended to mate with that IRS setup but because of production costs and of final MSRP the idea was scrapped altogether in favor of a revised 3 link live axle setup different from the previous mustangs.

From my import days I can tell you never to knock a 4 cyl engine. I've seen my fair share of 400HP 4cyl turbo engines with few mods done to them.
Ford has made some fantastic high performance for cylinder engines in the past. The Cosworth YB series comes to mind from the Sierra RS500 Group A days. 2.0L Lima block with twin injectors, a large Garrett truck turbo and you had in race trim a 620HP engine. Road versions easily tweaked to 400HP.
Besides it's power to weight ratio that makes or breaks a sports car.

SS02 · Sep 13, 2009

walter said:
The new edge Cobras had an IRS setup. It was very heavy compared to other manufacturer but it did give the car the extra handling finesse the GT didn't have. The S197 were intended to mate with that IRS setup but because of production costs and of final MSRP the idea was scrapped altogether in favor of a revised 3 link live axle setup different from the previous mustangs.

From my import days I can tell you never to knock a 4 cyl engine. I've seen my fair share of 400HP 4cyl turbo engines with few mods done to them.
Ford has made some fantastic high performance for cylinder engines in the past. The Cosworth YB series comes to mind from the Sierra RS500 Group A days. 2.0L Lima block with twin injectors, a large Garrett truck turbo and you had in race trim a 620HP engine. Road versions easily tweaked to 400HP.
Besides it's power to weight ratio that makes or breaks a sports car.

SRT-4 Neon----- Man I have seen those things spit out the HPs lol running 9 second 1/4s

Also I dont thinks its to far fetched to see a Turbo 4 Eco-Boost in the Mustang, ramp it up to 300hp and albeit that thing moves !!!

AWD for the Mustang would cost alot, be cool to see....but Ford wont do it. There answer im sure is.....buy a Taurus SHO.. Also seen video of them hitting 13.70s in the 1/4..seen alot hitting 13.90s. Car has some great potential with some modding and tuning.

cougar_68 · Sep 13, 2009

walter said:
The new edge Cobras had an IRS setup. It was very heavy compared to other manufacturer but it did give the car the extra handling finesse the GT didn't have. The S197 were intended to mate with that IRS setup but because of production costs and of final MSRP the idea was scrapped altogether in favor of a revised 3 link live axle setup different from the previous mustangs.

From my import days I can tell you never to knock a 4 cyl engine. I've seen my fair share of 400HP 4cyl turbo engines with few mods done to them.
Ford has made some fantastic high performance for cylinder engines in the past. The Cosworth YB series comes to mind from the Sierra RS500 Group A days. 2.0L Lima block with twin injectors, a large Garrett truck turbo and you had in race trim a 620HP engine. Road versions easily tweaked to 400HP.
Besides it's power to weight ratio that makes or breaks a sports car.

Definitely not knocking the 4 cyl. I just want AWD. I would rather have the V6, but maybe a slightly larger 4 cyl. (2.5L vs. current 2.0L offering) would be ok.

cougar_68 · Sep 13, 2009

SS02 said:
SRT-4 Neon----- Man I have seen those things spit out the HPs lol running 9 second 1/4s

Also I dont thinks its to far fetched to see a Turbo 4 Eco-Boost in the Mustang, ramp it up to 300hp and albeit that thing moves !!!

AWD for the Mustang would cost alot, be cool to see....but Ford wont do it. There answer im sure is.....buy a Taurus SHO.. Also seen video of them hitting 13.70s in the 1/4..seen alot hitting 13.90s. Car has some great potential with some modding and tuning.

I know Ford probably won't build an AWD Mustang, but I can't see spending $40K+ on a “Taurus”. Albeit, one Bad A** Taurus, but a Taurus nonetheless. I think I would consider spending high $20k’s on a Fusion with the 2.0L EcoBoost and AWD. Although I think it will be more expensive than that and still would rather see a 2.5L.

At any rate, I really just want a Mustang and one that I can drive more than 6-8 months out of the year! Maybe I should just move!!!

CA Lightfoot · Sep 13, 2009

cougar_68 said:
...So with all that being said, what do you guys think of the idea of an AWD Mustang? Not necessarily will it happen, but would you be for or against and why?

The Mustang is RWD. Always & forever. Make it AWD or FWD and it's not a Mustang anymore.

Of all the pony cars, I believe Dodge could most easily produce an AWD Challenger. (Same platform as the AWD Charger RT.) But they don't make one. That tells me the market is probably very limited.

So, I doubt it would justify the major $$$ to design/engineer/build an AWD Mustang.

Instead, maybe they could fit the ecoboost in an upmarket AWD Fusion-based model (Shelby/Fusion or Milan/Cougar?). Something to compete with the Audi S4 and BMW 335ix for $10k less.

plotzie73 · Sep 13, 2009

Having an AWD vehicle with over 300 hp is awesome. 2000 volvo v70r. For people in harsh winters CANADA, having to put away a GT for 5-6 months of the year sucks. I'd bet Ford has looked into this somewhere and you gotta think some engineer has plans for it and just needs to convince the right executives to make it happen. oh yeah the look on people's face when you pull away from a muscle car at the lights in a volvo station wagon is just plain awesome!

cougar_68 · Sep 13, 2009

CA Lightfoot said:
The Mustang is RWD. Always & forever. Make it AWD or FWD and it's not a Mustang anymore.

Of all the pony cars, I believe Dodge could most easily produce an AWD Challenger. (Same platform as the AWD Charger RT.) But they don't make one. That tells me the market is probably very limited.

So, I doubt it would justify the major $$$ to design/engineer/build an AWD Mustang.

Instead, maybe they could fit the ecoboost in an upmarket AWD Fusion-based model (Shelby/Fusion or Milan/Cougar?). Something to compete with the Audi S4 and BMW 335ix for $10k less.

I agree, that AWD Mustang probably won't happen, just dreaming. I do think ford needs something to compete with the STI's and EVO's out there though. An EcoBoost AWD Fusion would be pretty sweet, still not a Mustang, but pretty sweet. Only if they price it right though.

The V6 sport fusion they have now seems pretty cool, but I don’t feel like 265hp is really enough to compete. That and it’s probably heavier than the smaller turbo 4’s.

If they brought back the Cougar with AWD I would be in heaven. Although I think they should base the Cougar off the Mustang platform as it was in the 60’s. Therefore, if you can make an AWD Cougar you can make an AWD Mustang.

AWD EcoBoost Mustang in 2012???

How do you feel about Ford making an AWD, twin turbo V6 EcoBoost, Mustang?

I don't care if they make it or don't make.

It's a cool idea, but I wouldn't buy one.

I'm down right against the whole idea.

I would definately consider buying one.

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