ok as most of you know i have had my engine apart replacing a headgasket. and i had a friend of mine from work work on my thumper heads a bit while i had them out.
he put 1.94/1.6 valves in and put some good springs and seal etc. he does alot of his own work and etc anyways he did my work for me. they looked like he did a good job. i bolted down one of my frpp 1.7 rockers and the roller tip of the rocker IS NOT on the center of the valve tip, not close at all really. from just looking at it, it looked like .100" off toward the exhaust side, like the valve tip isnt coming up where it was before. i asked him about it. he tells me that its like that because i have a 1.7 rocker and that they increase the ratio by extending the arm that touched the valve. which makes NO sense to me. i told him i am pretty sure they change the ratio by moving the pushrod cup father/close to the fulcrum of the rocker arm. so moving the cup closer to the fulcrum would increase the ratio. this makes more sense and i'm sure this is how its done.
there is a SBC head at work we use to fit up valve covers, there are both 1.6s and 1.5s on this head, and they are right next to one another and you can see PLAIN as day the 1.6 rocker arm has the pushrod closer to the fulcrum point of the rocker arm.
he told me this was all normal so i am thinking "whatever" i didnt agree at all.
so i went on my way. i started putting the engine together, went to check PTV clearance and my stock pushrods WERE NOT long enough, they were around .100" to short or around there.
this in with the rocker arm tip coming close to the edge, i started thinking the valve height was wrong and was down father causing the rocker arm to come down, having the roller tip come to the edge and making the pushrods useless.
if the heads were done right with the valve height the same, the rocker arm would have been right and the stock pushrods would have worked just fine.
keep in mind i am still using pedestal mount rockers.
i tell him about this and he says the valve height is the same as they were before and that using a different cam and lifters will require different pushrods. i disagreed with him again.
i told him the lifters i bought were replacement lifters and were IDENTICAL to the stock ones i pulled out. i also said the cam chang (b cam to f cam) would have nothing to do with it, when the valve is shut its not going to go down so far that it will cause there to be slack in the valve train.
he then proceeds to tell me how changing things from factory stuff will change things, i told him that it shouldnt. its all the same stuff, the lifters wont change and the cam would only be changing the lift duration etc, not making the lifted come down in its bore father than factory, that makes no sense at all and is a load of crap.
if you havent guessed this guy is ALWAYS RIGHT
and i cant tell him a damn thing, i am pretty confident he is wrong and did my heads wrong.
he keeps assuring me everything is normal, so i continue... playing dumb about the whole thing, i want to see how it runs and if his head work causes problems then he cant tell me its normal. i wouldnt have been able to get him to do anything with them because he thinks hes right.
so i get the engine back together, and installed the rockers and NEW LONGER pushrods i had to buy ( about .150" longer)
when cycling the engine the rocker tips come SO CLOSE to the edge of the valve tip its not even funny, they dont go off but its close. i think wtf.
i get the engine running and sounds like a damn sewing machine. HORRBILE CHATTER, thought it was an exhaust leak at first, but i have dealt with plenty of exhaust leaks and this wasnt no exhaust leak at all. its not really a tick at all, more of a chattering sound, coming from below the manifold. no really up in the valve covers.
i was thinking i maybe got too long of a pushrod ( which i shouldnt have to have gotten at all) and its bottoming out the lifter and causing slack.
at idle and etc it wasnt too bad. once i started driving it was horrible. you can hear it all the time and its annoying.
other than the horrid sewing machine noise the car runs good, it runs decent.
now i am stuck on what to do. this chatter problem all leads back to what the guy did to my heads, i think he did them wrong and he assured me they are fine and etc.
i am pissed now that i have this noise. i dont think he will admit to anything, because he honestly thinks what he did was right.
i partially feel stupid for installing the heads, but trying to convince him about the work was like talking to a brick wall i couldnt get anywhere.
i am going to take the car over to his house tommorow and let him hear it, i mentioned it to him earlier this week and he ASSURES
its probably and exhaust leak. its no damn leak i tell you. i wont accuse him of anything at first i want to see what he thinks it is. i'll see where it goes and may confront him...
i will let him hear it for himself tommorow. i am pretty sure he wont say he did anything wrong at all. so pretty much i am SOL i think on this whole deal. i only paid 400 bucks so its not a HUGE amount of money but it makes me mad.
i do want to tear the heads off again. i just worked hard and spend time getting it back together clean and with no leaks etc etc.
is there a way i can switch over to a stud mount rocker system and somehow get the rocker to sit lower or something to get the roller tip over the center of the valve tip?? pretty much i mean is can i correct this at all without having to pull them off and get them fixed.
any other suggestions on what i should do?
he put 1.94/1.6 valves in and put some good springs and seal etc. he does alot of his own work and etc anyways he did my work for me. they looked like he did a good job. i bolted down one of my frpp 1.7 rockers and the roller tip of the rocker IS NOT on the center of the valve tip, not close at all really. from just looking at it, it looked like .100" off toward the exhaust side, like the valve tip isnt coming up where it was before. i asked him about it. he tells me that its like that because i have a 1.7 rocker and that they increase the ratio by extending the arm that touched the valve. which makes NO sense to me. i told him i am pretty sure they change the ratio by moving the pushrod cup father/close to the fulcrum of the rocker arm. so moving the cup closer to the fulcrum would increase the ratio. this makes more sense and i'm sure this is how its done.
there is a SBC head at work we use to fit up valve covers, there are both 1.6s and 1.5s on this head, and they are right next to one another and you can see PLAIN as day the 1.6 rocker arm has the pushrod closer to the fulcrum point of the rocker arm.
he told me this was all normal so i am thinking "whatever" i didnt agree at all.
so i went on my way. i started putting the engine together, went to check PTV clearance and my stock pushrods WERE NOT long enough, they were around .100" to short or around there.
this in with the rocker arm tip coming close to the edge, i started thinking the valve height was wrong and was down father causing the rocker arm to come down, having the roller tip come to the edge and making the pushrods useless.
if the heads were done right with the valve height the same, the rocker arm would have been right and the stock pushrods would have worked just fine.
keep in mind i am still using pedestal mount rockers.
i tell him about this and he says the valve height is the same as they were before and that using a different cam and lifters will require different pushrods. i disagreed with him again.
i told him the lifters i bought were replacement lifters and were IDENTICAL to the stock ones i pulled out. i also said the cam chang (b cam to f cam) would have nothing to do with it, when the valve is shut its not going to go down so far that it will cause there to be slack in the valve train.
he then proceeds to tell me how changing things from factory stuff will change things, i told him that it shouldnt. its all the same stuff, the lifters wont change and the cam would only be changing the lift duration etc, not making the lifted come down in its bore father than factory, that makes no sense at all and is a load of crap.
if you havent guessed this guy is ALWAYS RIGHT
and i cant tell him a damn thing, i am pretty confident he is wrong and did my heads wrong.he keeps assuring me everything is normal, so i continue... playing dumb about the whole thing, i want to see how it runs and if his head work causes problems then he cant tell me its normal. i wouldnt have been able to get him to do anything with them because he thinks hes right.
so i get the engine back together, and installed the rockers and NEW LONGER pushrods i had to buy ( about .150" longer)
when cycling the engine the rocker tips come SO CLOSE to the edge of the valve tip its not even funny, they dont go off but its close. i think wtf.
i get the engine running and sounds like a damn sewing machine. HORRBILE CHATTER, thought it was an exhaust leak at first, but i have dealt with plenty of exhaust leaks and this wasnt no exhaust leak at all. its not really a tick at all, more of a chattering sound, coming from below the manifold. no really up in the valve covers.
i was thinking i maybe got too long of a pushrod ( which i shouldnt have to have gotten at all) and its bottoming out the lifter and causing slack.
at idle and etc it wasnt too bad. once i started driving it was horrible. you can hear it all the time and its annoying.
other than the horrid sewing machine noise the car runs good, it runs decent.
now i am stuck on what to do. this chatter problem all leads back to what the guy did to my heads, i think he did them wrong and he assured me they are fine and etc.
i am pissed now that i have this noise. i dont think he will admit to anything, because he honestly thinks what he did was right.
i partially feel stupid for installing the heads, but trying to convince him about the work was like talking to a brick wall i couldnt get anywhere.
i am going to take the car over to his house tommorow and let him hear it, i mentioned it to him earlier this week and he ASSURES
its probably and exhaust leak. its no damn leak i tell you. i wont accuse him of anything at first i want to see what he thinks it is. i'll see where it goes and may confront him...i will let him hear it for himself tommorow. i am pretty sure he wont say he did anything wrong at all. so pretty much i am SOL i think on this whole deal. i only paid 400 bucks so its not a HUGE amount of money but it makes me mad.
i do want to tear the heads off again. i just worked hard and spend time getting it back together clean and with no leaks etc etc.
is there a way i can switch over to a stud mount rocker system and somehow get the rocker to sit lower or something to get the roller tip over the center of the valve tip?? pretty much i mean is can i correct this at all without having to pull them off and get them fixed.
any other suggestions on what i should do?
