Bad Luck with the new TKO600.

[Numbles]

After spending the night putting it in I ran into a few problems with this new trans.

And so far the one problem holding me back from driving the car is the fact that the housing over the tailshaft is different from the stock t-5. This is forcing the trans crosmember trans mount to be bent down. By the mounting bracket being forced down about an inch, it in turn raises the trans an inch with makes the trans rest against the body of the trans tunnel (after bolted to the trans crosmember). I dont know what to do.

Im thinking about getting the sawzaw or dremmel and slowely grinding the extra metal to allow the bracket to fit flush. Anyone think this is a bad idea. Iverall I am satisfied with the trans. Its noticably heavier than the stock t-5 though.

If there is anyone else on this board that has had a similar problem with a tremec let me know. It also kinda pulled my off guard when a couple of buddies were working on the car when I was at work so I wasn't there for the dissasembly of the crossmember peices. I will try and take a pic tommorrow before grinding anything down. Hopefully there is a simpler solution.

 

[mo_dingo]

I know they sell crossmembers for aftermarket transmissions. I can't tell you if they would help though.

Whom did you buy the transmission from? Have you called them? Did they mention you needed a new x-member?

You don't want the bracket to be weakened with excess removal of material. That sounds like a bad idea. I would "rather" see you remove some material from where the x-member mounts to the frame, which MAY allow enough room to fit.

You made this thread too late. Someone should here will chime in by this afternoon that has experienced this problem. Wait until then before you start hacking at your car just yet!!
Scott

 

[janks300]

well my friend i also have a tko 600 in my car and it fits perfect. what i did was ditch the stock mount and bracket get a energy suspension trans mount, it bolts directly to the trans and you are good to go

mike

 

[zenboy99]

Wow, these TKO swaps can be pricey!

 

[Killercanary]

I'm not sure what you are trying to explain. To install my TKO I had to ditch the exhaust hanger bracket that was attached to the tranny mount. Once I ditched it, it fit fine. I did however cut a piece of metal the same thickness of the exhaust hanger plate and put it between the tranny mount and the tran to maintain my DS angle. I did however switch to energy suspension motor and tranny mounts when I did the swap too. I didn't think the cases were different between mine and the new TKO. If you have any more questions let me know.


Did you index your bell housing??? If not, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR... DO IT NOW! I know this sucks, but trust me it will be SO worth it in the long run. Do NOT put that tranny in the car without indexing that bell... you will be sorry if you do.

 

[Numbles]

Alright, Killer mentioned a good point with ditching the exhaust hanger bracket. But If I ditch it, then I will have to bolt the trans mouns 2 inches forward to where the hanger mounts. Because the enhaust bracket mounts to the trans and the the trans mount mounts to that. Does anyone have a picture of how they installed it. Or can run a camera out to their car. Alls I need is a picture to figure it out.

Like I said, a few buddies got ambisious and took the crosmember out without me there so I was unable to see the dissasembly of it. I will call joe at D and D performance today and see what he says. I also didn't recieve a driveshaft spacer. Which I also thought I needed.

Im glad Im finally getting answers now. It was pullin teeth to get advice from people in my last thread a few days ago.

And Im really feeling like an idiot but I have never heard of indexing a bellhousing.

BTW, If it weren't for stangnet I would never get this thing in.

EDIT: Found a link in another oneof Killers post. I had no idea there was this much involved with the k-member. I'm going to be doin some reading this afternoon.

 

[94Silverbullet]

Wow, these TKO swaps can be pricey!

you could say that again! Sheesh! Just added $200 to my Tremec 500 install because I have LT's.

Alright, Killer mentioned a good point with ditching the exhaust hanger bracket. But If I ditch it, then I will have to bolt the trans mouns 2 inches forward to where the hanger mounts. Because the enhaust bracket mounts to the trans and the the trans mount mounts to that. Does anyone have a picture of how they installed it. Or can run a camera out to their car. Alls I need is a picture to figure it out.

Like I said, a few buddies got ambisious and took the crosmember out without me there so I was unable to see the dissasembly of it. I will call joe at D and D performance today and see what he says. I also didn't recieve a driveshaft spacer. Which I also thought I needed.

Im glad Im finally getting answers now. It was pullin teeth to get advice from people in my last thread a few days ago.

And Im really feeling like an idiot but I have never heard of indexing a bellhousing.

BTW, If it weren't for stangnet I would never get this thing in.

EDIT: Found a link in another oneof Killers post. I had no idea there was this much involved with the k-member. I'm going to be doin some reading this afternoon.

Cosign to the great help from you Stangnet guys giving great advice.
Good luck with the install Numbles. Keep us posted.

 

[Killercanary]

There should be enough adjustment in the stock crossmember to allow it to bolt right in, unless something has changed between my TKO and the TKO600. The fox body cars had to cut the cylinder looking things on either end of the crossmember off and then slide the crossmember on them and then re-weld it. We don't have to. I can answer just about any question you have on this subject, just let me know. As for bell housing indexing, check out http://www.mustangworks.com and look under their tech articles for a nice in depth description of what it is and how to do it. You REALLY need to do this. I ended up taking out the front bearing in my new TKO because I didn't do it. What bell are you running?

 

[Numbles]

Thanks for the advice so far. I got the trans all bolted up today by myself. Not having friends over helped wit the patientce issue. Somehow I took my time and got everything to bolt up just fine.

Killer, I talked to joe at DDPerformance, he said with the bellhousing that came with my tko600 I absolutly dont need to index the bellhousing. He said when purchasing a lakewood bellhousing that you would need to.

On a second note Its absolutely awsome to drive a car with a 3rd gear. However the rubber isolater that keep road noise out of the cabin of the car is done on my car. I can take off the shifter boot and look at the ground. So the added noise I heard of thats common with the tko's is just that much louder. Which makes me wonder why it would be louder anyways.

I have a energy suspension trans mount coming in tomorrow. As well as a o/r h-pipe. Since my buddie dave got a compressor and an impact wrench. Swapping those out wont be a problem. Ill be sure to get some sound clip of the new setup.

I also didn't use the driveshaft spacer. Joe forgot to send me one so I went to a place called ChicoNos driveshaft in Chicago. A guy with a 9 sec nova and 6 sec camaro reccomended them to me. They only accepted cash so by the time I went to the bank and came back it was done. They used the stock bracket that bolts to the pinion gear. and installed the 31 spline slipyoke on a chrome moly torque tube(If I remember right.). And it fit like a glove. I asked how much it could handle and the guy said that it wont break it, period.

I am going to read up more on indexing a bellhousing and when this clutch is shot, which it will be soon. Im not going to waste time with a break in period. I want a centerforce asap. Then Im going to read up some more and index it anyways. Its always good to be absolutely sure that its centered.

I finally get to add another thing to the sig. Wish it was a blower though.

EDIT: Also, the stock dust cover for the shift fork doesn't fit. Do I need one from a fox body. I think I remember reading that somewhere.

 

[Killercanary]

Tell D&D I said they are full of ****. I bought my entire setup from them, and they too told me I didn't need to index the bell. I had so many problems that I eventually got the TTC engineers to agree to look at the car. I drove it 7hrs to Toledo OH, they looked at the car but basically it was a waste of my time. they wanted to show me their R&D stuff more than look at my car. But they too told me I shouldn't have to worry about indexing my bell. I called Bob Hanlon to fix a shifting problem I had and HE was the one that said I had better check it anyway. Well sure enough, it was WAY off. I have the aluminum tremec bell housing. The guys at D&D wiped their hands of me when I started to have problems and shuffled me off to TTC. I used to buy EVERYTHING from them for my driveline... I will now NEVER spend another dime there. Dude, I'm telling you, for the piece of mind and for that few thousand dollars you just put in your car... you should have indexed it, I just hope your not sorry you didn't.

 

[Killercanary]

And yes, you need the fox dust shield. I got lucky because my dad used a McCleod SFI bell and I grabbed his dust shield from his stock bell.

You did put two shorter bolts in the top of the bell too, right?

 

[Numbles]

Yeah, funny you mention the two shorter bolts. When I torqued in the original bolts I was confused when I saw them not in all the way. So we had to go get shorter ones. Do you know of any place near chicago that can index a bellhousing. I read up on it and it is definately something I could probably tackle. But Im no pro at it so Id rather pay someone to do it. I would definately mess up the first time.

Im really glad you were able to voice your opinion in depth. Some people dont give reasons. And from you I actually trust your word Paul. If you dont mind me asking, how much would indexing a bellhousing cost. There are a couple of mustang shops in my area but I have never been to them.

On a side note, the energy suspension trans mount was a really good peice. We put it in today with the h-pipe. I would reccomend it to anyone. And the h-pipe just sounds so freaking loud. Although its not bad in the car. Its really loud. Almost too loud. I had a smile on my face the hole ride home from my buddies garage.

If there's anything else that anyone should nkow about tremec tko trans please post up here. Then maybe Vib can add some of the info into the FAQ. I will do a write up myself, I would just need pictures from someone else's install because I didn't use a camera. There's alot of stuff not mentioned when buying that trans.

Dan.

 

[Nik_95Cobra]

Dang Paul..You're the man. The Yoda of Stangs. What were some other issues you had from not indexing it? Mine has been ok so far, only problem is that it sounds crappy while cruizing, which is unavoidable I guess, and I've ate up a couple clutches for some odd reason. I will definately Index mine when the new motor goes in.

 

[Killercanary]

Minimum parts needed:

TKOtranny
TKO spec DS yoke
new clutch disc
new bell
93-older clutch fork
93-older clutch cable dust cover (on alum. TTC bell housing)
2 shorter bell housing bolts form top two holes in bell
GM synchromesh tranny fluid
delete exhaust hanger and install similar thickness plate to maintain DS angle
DS spacer
dial indicator and magnetic base to dial indicate the bell housing
possibly lakewood offset dowel pins if bell needs adjustment

Dan, if you can put the tranny in, you can index the bell. Read and re-read the article on mustangworks and you'll be fine. You need to take measurements at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 position. 12-6 and or 3-9 should not be more than .005" different than one another AT THE BELL.... this is a VERY precise measurement. Put the dial indicator base on the flywheel, bolt up the bell, put the dial indicator point on the inner side of the ring in which the bearing retainer of the tranny fits into and take your measurements. If they are off, you will HAVE to get the offset dowel pins from Lakewood and adjust them until you are within spec. Its nopt hard just time consuming.

Dan, I ended up replacing my ring and pinion, axle bearings, carrier bearings, DS, axles, re-balanced my tires, checked DS angle, etc all to try and figure out a vibration issue I had that came on like a switch at speeds above 75mph. They are all but gone now, but you see what I went through to get rid of them... I truely think the culprit was the bell housing being off. I try to keep my negative comments to myself, but I almost sold my car over the problems I had experienced with the tranny and the lack of help and support from those that I purchased it from, so its a very SORE subject with me.

 

[Killercanary]

What were some other issues you had from not indexing it?

I took out the input shaft bearing within the first 500 miles, I had EXCESSIVE drivetrain vibration at speeds above 75mph, I had a problem with grinding of the gears when shifting into 2nd and 4th at high loads, like while drag racing. So I had to replace the synchros. I still can not shift the car above ~6100 as it "hits a wall" and refuses to go into gear. I was told this is an air gap problem, but I had taken steps to increase it to no avail. I am however buying a new adjustable clutch quadrant that will give me more air gap and release the clutch quicker than the setup I'm running now. I put in a new clutch disc when I put the tranny in in '02, but it already needs replaced. Its OK on the street, but I get on it hard or try to launch hard, it slips. If you rebuild your motor, you ABSOLUTELY MUST index your bell. Line honing the block tends to move the crank UP into the block, thus messing up the indexing of the bellhousing. By indexing the bell we are trying to maintain a centerline between the crank, input shaft, and mainshaft of the tranny with no more than .005" variance AT THE BELL. This is a good 6" from the crank, meaning at the bell must be damn near dead on at the crank as the farther away from it you get, the more variance you will see. Mine was off something like .015" which is basically 3X's what it should have been!!!

 

[Last5.0]

This thread has a lot of info in it. Thanks guys. I have my motor out on a cradle and just indexed my McLeod SFI bell. I installed a SFI billit steel flywheel, Spec stage 3 hybrid with a 26 spline, and have my TKO-600, yolk, and DS spacer on the way.

Do any of you suggest putting the engine /w bell into car then putting the tranny up, or bolt the tranny to the bell and install the whole thing at once??

 

[Numbles]

Paul. Great info. Im curious about the spacer to set the DS angle back to the stock angle. In accordance to getting rid of the exhaust bracket. What thickness did you use? If you used one at all.

After a night of racing I have realized that shifting into third is a major issue. Although I think I need some more practice with the new trans to get that problem put on the back burners. I miss third more than half the time. I would catch it right inbetween 3rd and 5th. Im not used to a shifter that springs itself in front of third. So I try to move it to the right while speed shifting like I did with the stock shifter. Would a shorter handle help this problem. Im using the stock shifter handle with the hurst short shifter that came with the trans.

Last5.0. I bolted the bellhousing up first and then did the tranny. And I think it would be easier to torque those bolts with the motor out of the car. Try it, If it doesn't work just unbolt it and put it in with the trans.

I am also experiencing vibration at highway speeds but they start at about 85 to 90 and up. The vibration started when my 3.73 was installed. I got a new driveshaft that is balances so I know that cant be it. And Ill try to get the tires balanced in the back because I recently got tires for the front. Wht other factors can lead to vibration. I dont think the vibration has anything to do with the tko simply because it has been a problem for a while. But the vibration isn't as bad not that the new trans is in.

Oh, and my speed is also off be about 10-15 mph. I think I have a 21 tooth speedo gear. The white one. For a 3.73 with the t-5. What gear would I need with the tko. It must have a sifferent speedo gear in the trans that would cause this.

 

[mo_dingo]

The white one is a 23 speedo tooth. I know that is the closest you can get with a T-5 w/o replacing the drive gear inside the transmission.

I can't tell you what you need for the new transmission though. Good luck.
Scott

 

[Numbles]

Scott, your right on the 24 tooth gear. It was that or the 21.

But does anyone know what drive gear comes in the tremec. I tried TTC's website but no luck. I think its either a 8 or 9 tooth. EHH, whatever. It was fun racing last night and at the top of 4th it said I was only doing 85 LOL.

 

[fiveohh94gt]

i just put in a red speedo gear for my tk-600 with 3.73's, thats the one i was told i needed at fun ford weekend. although i havnt got a chance to pace another car to see if its correct. sorry i cant rememeber how many tooth it is