Brand New 4.6 2V Vortech V3 SC. Running hot

[shipracer]

Hey Guys, I have a brand new 4.6 2v engine, new all aluminum radiator, all new fluid. My current tune is overkill with my fan, starts at 160 degrees and is full by 190 or 200 (I cant remember). Water pump is good. What am I missing

Car seems to run hot on any freeway runs, or higher RPM. I suspect my lower radiator hose may be collapsing (not sure there is an internal spring in my hose). By hot i mean it creeps 200-210-215 and instantly cools down when stopped moving or lower speeds.

Any thoughts or Ideas? Thanks in advance.

 

[alwayshi]

That sounds normal after Highway pulls to me? And you say that the temps immediately drop when you slow down or cruise.
Especially with a supercharger that generates more heat within the engine bay. Are you intercooled or non-intercooled?

 

[shipracer]

It is intercooled. Thanks for the reply.

I was told 210 before was running on the hot side, I want to be able to highway drive (hold speed limit) and not get to hot, and do a couple of safe WOT/PULLs (to pass a car or anything).. without hitting 220. But I may just be dreaming or the temps like you say are normal.

Being supercharged, you see no issue with WOTs at 210 temp?

 

[alwayshi]

If you’re beating on it then yes I’d expect the temps to rise to around there. If you’re cruising highway and out of boost, I’d imagine the temps would stay in the normal range.
If hoses aren’t collapsing, thermostat is truly working along with fans and you’ve bled the system correctly, then I wouldn’t worry too much.
If anything, you can always upgrade the electric fans to a higher CFM.

This experience that I’m saying is coming from my boosted 240sx. I learned the hard way from hard lapping that car, and I’m currently in the process of v3 intercooling my ‘00 GT right now.

When I was racing the GT n/a, I’d always make sure to give it 20-30 minutes to cool down somewhat before the next run.

How much power are you making with what pulley size? I just got intercooler piping to finish up and can’t wait to start her

 

[shipracer]

stock pulley, 8PSI right now. last engine/dyno was 420hp.

nice congrats on your car.

 

[alwayshi]

Wow, great numbers!!
Yeah, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Just keep an eye on the temps. That centrifugal Charger does add additional heat to the bay, so heat soak increases too

 

[shipracer]

I was told/under the impression the fans dont do much for speeds over 45mph or so.

 

[alwayshi]

That’s interesting info..maybe upgraded electric fans associated with a lower thermostat will do the trick

 

[Don A]

Here's a couple of things to check before you spend any money or lose sleep. 1) Temp gauges can be off, as much as 15-20 degree's in some cases. I use a cheap meat thermometer from the grocery store to check gauge. Insert the probe in the radiator fins up high close to where the top hose comes in to the radiator and compare to gauge. 2) Most late model thermostats are 195 or above to burn hydrocarbons. Drop to a 180 if 180 to 200 is the rage your comfortable with. Thermostats do two things; controls the lower limit to maintain adequate temp in cold weather and limits flow when open to allow for adequate cooling time in the radiator. 3) Check for that spring in the bottom hose. The hose will have a tendency to collapse at high speed or high RPM's. Most high speed overheats indicate one of two things; a) Inadequate radiator for the amount of heat that engine is producing when it's making horse power (high RPM's), or b) either restricted flow or "too much flow" rate through the radiator for a 30 degree temperature drop inlet to outlet which is about normal.

 

[shipracer]

im 99% sure my lower hose does not have a spring, Also to note, my car is a 2005 police interceptor basically a 4 door mustang 99-04.

Im pretty sure it is collapsing but i cant really see/prove it, until on the dyno maybe.

 

[alwayshi]

im 99% sure my lower hose does not have a spring, Also to note, my car is a 2005 police interceptor basically a 4 door mustang 99-04.

Im pretty sure it is collapsing but i cant really see/prove it, until on the dyno maybe.

any update buddy?

 

[shipracer]

Not god news, about 1100-1200 miles in the engine started to give up. Its back at the engine builders/installers for a week now. Only update I have is the oil it very black, and thats bad for a new engine.

I dont know much about engine internals, but from what I can gather from online experts, is its possible my rear thrust bearing is toast, and maybe more... Im assuming there was some type of oil flow issue but i really dont know.

I was a day away from my DYNO appointment .


In short what was happening, after i fixed all exhaust leaks, and was ready to tune, I started to hear again what i thought was another exhaust leak, but it was the flexplate hitting/tapping the metal gasket that goes in between the trans/engine, we slightly bent the metal gasket oout slightly and the noise and issue went away, I thought...

I took it for a test drive, no issues, returning from my test drive, the flexplate tapping came back, and a louder futher knocking started to happen. It was 60 degrees out side, completely mellow/normal driving and the car was up to 220 degrees (running way too hot for the conditions). I pull over and towed to the shop. The car showed its first misfires during this incidenent. which were cylinder 8 and 4 (the two rear cylinders)..

 

[alwayshi]

Ahhhh man....such a bummer..
I’m sure you’ll be back up and running in no time flat however!

 

[shipracer]

I dont think so.

I need some help and/or direction from any engine guys on here. Going to put alot of information out here, sorry for the long post, just want anything that can help, to have all the info.

I had a brand new engine made for 600HP 4.6 2v, vortech v3 blower 8 psi. 1000 miles in and the "rear thrust bearing is toast, the crank is walking, the oil was very black). I did the first oil change at 200 miles as per the engine shop (also installers).


Initially the engine builders are blaming the transmission or torque converter. Ive ran this transmission and brand of torque converter for the life of the car. 2 STOCK motors over 5 years. The Torque converter was sent to Andre and Refurbished new, for the new motor/install).

Stock Motor - Blew a head gasket on a used motor i had installed. Lasted 8 months, but had my first DYNO tune on it.
Stock Motor -Blew lifer/rod - lasted 5 years of complete beating on it with over heating, tuned too lean, tuned to rich, etc.. it took alot of the growing pains.

Ive never heard of a thrust bearing until now and Im not an engine guy at all.

The transmission is a custom rebuilt level4 upgrade from Darrin at BCA (god father of these transmissions).
Torque converter is a custom 2800 high stall from Andre Edge Racing.
I did buy an upgraded flex plate to go with the new engine/TC (383724 - SR Performance High Performance Flexplate - 164 Tooth, 6 Bolt (96-98 GT; Late 01-10 GT))


I feel like the engine was starved of oil... if so what other things might I look for then just the rear thrust bearing being bad? would there be a sure sign inside the motor that it was starved for oil? I say this cause the engine was always running hotter then any stock motor did at high way speeds. I feel like something with higher RPM or speeds was not getting enough oil through this new build.


The torque converter will be pulled and sent back to the builder for inspection.
I reached out to multiple transmission and engine legends and they all lean towards an install issue with the Torque converter spacing. The build sheet from the engine builders look good, they are top notch guys. Im leaning towards they did everything right engine wise. but maybe the new oil pump failed. or I dont really have any clue. I know a stock motor never had this issue with my setup.


Im out of time and my mental health is taking a toll. Any help is appreciated. Anything that might point me or them in a direction.




Heres what some of the professionals said with out seeing it or having anything torn down.

Darrin BCA transmissions - My Transmission builder. Definitely not the trans. Strongly thinks its not the Torque Converter itself, possibly install issue.

Eric S. - 4r70w transmission expert builder - The transmission has its own thrust washer between the pump and the rest of the internals and the pump is rigidly mounted to the transmission case. The only part that sticks out of the pump is the input shaft, which engages in the torque converter. The only way a transmission can damage the engine crank shaft is if the torque converter failed and Balloons. This rarely happens on Factory torque converters because they have built in anti-ballooning plates installed. It is known to happen on some of the less expensive aftermarket converters that are cheaply made. I would say its more likely they messed something up during the engine build.

Andre EdgeRacingConverters - My Torque Converter builder - Strongly thinks its not the torque converter. From the size and anti-ballooning plate. Plus ran his TCs for years on stock motors no issues while boosted.. Need to inspect thrust bearing for wear on the front or back side

Andrew Lavender - Youtube 4.6 2V engine expert - Everything looks good on the build sheet and they appear to be good builders. Does not believe it was the trans/TC. Was the converter was spaced correctly?

Jordan ModularHeadShop - 4.6 2V engine expert - Typically a thrust bearing issue is caused by improper torque converter to flex plate clearance. Do you know if that was checked and / or recorded during installation?

Steve - PowerTrainDynamics tuner/dyno guy recommended by CPR - This could be an installation problem. The Torque converter connects to 2 splined shafts and the oil pump. If the torque converter is not installed correctly, it will stick out a small amount and push against the crankshaft. This can destroy the thrust bearing. At this point, the transmission should be removed and the crankshaft thrust bearing checked. You may need to remove the engine oil pan.

 

[shipracer]

Started this weekend to take things down so the block can get pulled. I got the supercharger/intercooler/pipes/throttle body/injector/coils/spark plugs. I also got a bore scope down each cylinder, curious what the engine gurus here think.

The plugs are much Darker now (Im not sure if the engine shop ran the car and how long if any. Also I can get the exact miles tomorrow and tally it out), but I pulled cylinder 5 plug 10/21 at 800~ miles on the engine, but cylinder 5 (and all cylinders are dark now). The car only had 200~ miles in between those pictures, so something happened there. The plugs were all hard as **** to get out, I took video of removing two of them, and its the hardest ive ever had to remove spark plugs.

Video of how hard it was to remove spark plug:
View: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OptVseYJFLwgByCTTCBWcPB39uA5Uxmx


Cylinder 5 plug at around 1000~ miles ( this was hours before the car gave out, not even 20~ miles for a short drive later that night where all kinds of knocking, misfiring, loose of power) I parked the car and towed it to the engine shop without ever starting it again:

Cylinder 5 plug at around 1000 miles~ (I pulled this after I towed the car back from the engine shop, not sure if they started/had the car running, but something failed dramatically for the plugs to change like that with so few miles.):

When I removed the fuel rails, none of the fuel injectors wanted to come out with it. So fuel went all over the injectors, in the seats/electrical plugs on them, I tried to dry it up, but i think some went down some cylinders slightly.


Cylinder 1-4 Borescope video:
View: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P63c6I5qDAAMhPOcDYyl71dmvHwg1G2g

Cylinder 5-8 Borescope video:
View: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PAMuGhZA4i2XpRIQmUqx0JvfdHXqjoeo


appreciate any thoughts. thanks.