build the 351w or buy a crate BB?

[69sportroof]

Hey guys I've reached the point in time where i need to start thinking about powerplant options. The car is a stock H code auto sportsroof, the car runs and drives nice and smooth...it's just painfully weak, I doubt the car could break traction on a sheet of ice in a rain storm although that may have something to do with 275/60/15 on the back with the stock gears In a nutshell she needs more power and i was hoping for some recommendations. After breaking down the cost of having my 351 re-built(aluminum heads, cam, etc.) and buying a crate bb(im thinking a 390) they both come out to roughly 5-6000$. I hope to achieve between 350-40 fwhp which ever way I go. I know both can put out that power level easily I just figured with the 390 it would do it easier and more reliably...while also giving me something to drool/brag over on sunday mornings with my buddies. My c4 needs to be rebuilt anyway and im assuming that with the power levels im aiming for that this shouldn't be a problem Any suggestions/ insight would be appreciated. OH yeah i almost forgot, i intend to make this car my daily driver......

 

[jerry S]

If the costs are the same and you get a warranty with the crate engine, get the crate. I was in your position and opted to rebuild. I hot tanked the block and rebuilt with a new cam, intake, heads, pistons, rods, and carb. I reused the rest to keep my costs down and my wife still unsuspecting. I waited a year and then added a March serp. conversion kit, meziere electric water pump, holley blue electric fuel pump, and billet steel harmonic dampener. At the end of the day, I figure my costs were slightly higher than if I were to have purchased a crate but my components are all top of the line, better than I would have gotten with a crate, and I built my motor exactly to my own specs. The easiest thing to do, however, would have been to get a crate and just drop it in.

 

[Max Power]

I built a healthy 393 for well under $5000.

You already have the motor, the mounts and pulleys are already set up, and your tranny is set up for the 351 based motor. If you switch to a 390, all that stuff will need changing.

You will get a lot more bang for the buck stroking the motor you have, plus the 351 is lighter, so your car will handle better.

The only reason to swap a 390 in there is some sort of bragging rights, and if you want big block bragging rights, a 390 would be the smallest, weakest(lamest) one. If you must show off, get a 428!

 

[gzminiz]

I thought about the 390 vs 351W and decided on the windsor. The coolest past, to me, is the fact that I built the engine myself. I get to decided which parts go in it and exactly how it is going to be.

Anyone can say, i bought a big block, but you will have put it all together yourself. and like Max Power said, it is lighter.

Stroke the 351, there are a ton of aftermarket parts for it.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

After breaking down the cost of having my 351 re-built(aluminum heads, cam, etc.) and buying a crate bb(im thinking a 390) they both come out to roughly 5-6000$. I hope to achieve between 350-40 fwhp which ever way I go.

You should be able to build a non-stroker 351W for ALOT less than that. My brand new roller 302(forged pistons, balanced) with Edelbrock heads cost about $3500 in the end, and that was after some unnecessary spending. 400fwhp should be no problem at all(heck maybe even 400rwhp if you do it really well).

 

[Mach1steve]

go 351W to 408W stroker....

408W Stroker Kit Part # 11420-SF $1,249.99
from Coast High Performance
http://www.coasthigh.com/Assemblies/Ford/ford_408w.htm
add a set of Edelbrock Alum heads, and presto !
425+ hp & gobs of torque, and totally streetable !
(build for torque, not horsepower !)
Horsepower is race track stuff, street stuff is all about Torque !



Mach1steve
www.muggziperformance.com

 

[69Rcode_Mach1]

I would also recommend the stroker, but if you want to blow that kind of cash. GO 427!!!! Sooooooo much torque and horsepower, plus then you get to brag about having a 427 on Sundays.

 

[69sportroof]

As much as a lot of the veterans hate to hear this...I simply don't have enough time, space, tools, or expertise to build a reliable engine. I know it sounds like a cop out or laziness..and on some level it may be, but it would simply be much easier to let someone more capable than myself do the work. With that said, a stroker does sound very sexy, especially since I forgot to add the cost of buying all new brackets, mounts, etc to swap over to the BB. I'm down in San Diego and about 5 min away from either JMC or the Mustang Shoppe. These are the guys i was going to have build the motor if I went that way. I know strokers can be streetable but how are they for u daily drivers out there? Sorry for all the questions guys, It's just that I've already wasted a large sum of money on this car before and it almost forced me to sell it...I am now in recovery and I just want to do this in the easiest and most effective way (with a warranty if possible.) Thanks to all the guys who already posted

ps. Any recommended builders in the San Diego area?

 

[CochinoFilipino]

Sounds like the engine's healthy. Do you need to rebuild? You're only seeking 350 at the fly.

Maybe just get some heads, cam, intake and exhaust? Just a thought if you don't want to pay for a bunch of work that might not need to be done.

 

[Mach1steve]

not as s exy.... but

If the bottom end on the 351W you have doesn't need anything, then just put Aluminum heads on it and a decent intake & cam set-up, and you'll get there.
This can be done without removing the engine from the car, and any competent mechanic can do it for you. Look for a speed shop with good reputation with experience with Ford engines to do the mods. Labour shouldn't exceed $600 to $700 + the parts (heads, cam, intake, lifters, springs)
What Carb do you have ? It may be OK to use, same with the Intake if it's an aluminum performance peice.
If you already have headers, then you can use them again with this set-up.
Spend the little bit extra on the heads and buy them assebled complete with stainless valves & springs (don't buy them bare), this will save you more labour in set-up and makes them a straight bolt-on.
Go with the Edelbrock RPM head set-up.
Should work real nice and be a totally reliable & "street-friendly" engine.
Done !

 

[Jimmys66]

If you're on the cheap that 351 should do 400hp with just heads, intake, and cam(depending on what you already have for a carb).

Most of the 408 and up strokers I've seen will make 500hp+. If this is what you want, I highly req. getting the stroker, but it does cost extra money.

If you're looking for 350 to 400hp and stock reliability, the base 351 should be plenty and you can use the extra money for the trans rebuild.

 

[BullittStangV8]

How good are the stock internal components on the 351 winsor? What HP levels are they capable of? Im thinking of adding a nice set of pistons durring my rebuild, and was wonding about the capabilities of the crank and rods..

 

[xoxbxfx]

i bet you can find a slightly used 393 or 408 stroker shortblock (all forged with Eagle forged or scat forged internals) for around $2500... Add some some nice AFR heads $1500 then a cam and intake, you will have a very nice stroker motor for $4500 or so. Strokers are easily streetable. Earlier year blocks like 69 blocks are nice and dont heat up like some of the newer (80's) blocks.

 

[1320stang]

Keith Craft has both FE and Windsor based crate engines. He's got a 390 based FE (416-445cid)that's rated at 525hp/550tq which would get you 400 at the rear wheels with 20% loss thru the drivetrain and will run on pump gas for $8995. You can upgrade to a 428 block for $500 and get up to 463cid. Scat stroker crank, Scat or Eagle rods, JE pistons, Comp hyd cam & lifters, Canton pan, BHJ damper, Melling, Edelbrock Stage 2 heads, Erson shaft mount roller rockers, Performer RPM intake, balanced and blueprinted.

He also has a budget 408/410 that runs on pump gas that makes 500hp/500tq, Scat stroker crank, Mahle or SRP pistons, 28 oz balance, Comp. hydraulic roller cam, Melling, BHJ damper, AFR 185 or Brodix Track 1 heads, Performer RPM intake, balanced and blueprinted for $5695. Or you can get a little better 408/410 that makes 575hp/550tq for $7395 that uses a Scat forged crank, SFI damper, AFR 205 or Stage 2 Victor or Stage 2 Brodix Track 1 heads with a Victor Jr. intake.

He also has 331/347 in both budget and better for $5295 and $6295 respectively, sorta along the same lines as the 408/410 engines.

The difference between a 351w and a 427FE is about 60-70 pounds. This is for a fully dressed out engine. The battery moved to the trunk on the 427 car and the difference is degligable. Aluminum heads will decrease each about the same. A iron FE intake is about 90 pounds.

I like the FE myself, but since you already have it set up as a small block, I think I'd stay with that to keep the costs of the conversion down.

 

[69 Sportroof]

I feel your pain! I've been comtemplating a BB in my 69 as well. after considering all options I, decided on a Windsor based mill. Changing acces.mounts and drivetrain components starts upping the cost, and clearance issues with headers on the BB,s startsgetting interesting if your considering rack&pinion set-ups. Good luck, either way.

 

[rbohm]

since you seem to have the wherewithall to buy a crate motor, why not stop by your local ford racing parts dealer and order up a 393w crate motor. or if you like a 351w crate motor. that would bolt in place of your 351w, and you wont have to get new brackets or pullies.