Buy a used S197 GT or a NEW V6????

bobwb · Sep 26, 2010

have you drove the new 5.0 ? i did, this new 5.0 is not like the older 5.0s, they just haul butt big time, dont waste time buying the v-6, the dealers have come down big time here on the new 5.0s, thats what iam waiting for, ill bet you can get a 2011 5.0 for around 27 to 30 pretty soon, just hang on, you dont need a v-6, my wifes 2009 honda accord v-6 271 hp seems about the same performance as the new 2011 mustang v-6 auto tranny, i hear the 6 speeds are faster?but, my wifes honda is much faster then our old 86 5.0. all stock. iam gonna wait for mabye 3 more months then go deal on a new 5.0.

Ltngdrvr · Sep 26, 2010

No, I'm sold on the V6 Performance Package car. I want the better fuel economy and lower insurance rates. And if the dealer comes off on the GT pricing that much they will come off the V6 too.

scupking · Sep 26, 2010

DougNuts said:
I haven't driven one yet, but I did see a post from a guy who said that he had to pop the hood on his rental Mustang to be sure it wasn't a V8. They sound like V6's from outside the car, but apparently not from inside.

Yeah from all the videos I have heard they sound very close to a V8 from the inside and can sound good from the out side depending on what exhaust you go with. Just check out this exhaust clip YouTube - 2011 Mustang V6 Catback Retro Exhaust

STANGmole · Sep 27, 2010

The Shape said:
Yeah I do like the lines of the '10-'11 cars better for sure. I guess if I go with a 2011 V6 the question then becomes do I buy a brand new one right now or wait 6 months program cars demo cars ect. to become available at a lesser price.

...or do you buy one of the 2010 GTs that are still new on dealer lots and selling for huge discounts and incentives?

AvalancheSVT · Sep 27, 2010

STANGmole said:
...or do you buy one of the 2010 GTs that are still new on dealer lots and selling for huge discounts and incentives?

imo its not worth it. you'll get worse mpg, an engine that requires more maintenance, a tranny that isn't as good, and a car that doesn't handle as good for the same price as a V6.

they would have to take off much more than it would be worth to them for it to be worth it to me (and most guys that are diggin the 30mpg 13 second mustang idea).

Ltngdrvr · Sep 27, 2010

STANGmole said:
...or do you buy one of the 2010 GTs that are still new on dealer lots and selling for huge discounts and incentives?

And you would think that they are or should be doing huge discounts but they aren't that huge.

Most of the 2010 GT discounts are in the $5,000 range including the $2500 cash back that Ford is offering on 2010's.

So, the dealer is really only discounting them about $2500.

A few dealers are going about another $1000-$1500 below that but not many.

They would need to get the total discount in the $8,000 range to make it worth it to me to buy a 2010 GT over a 2011 V6 or GT.

hillie16 · Sep 27, 2010

For me, I prefer the body style of the 05-09's. I was looking in to both and ended up finding my '06 with only 7000 miles on it for 17K.

Gearbanger 101 · Sep 27, 2010

MakotoS13 said:
imo its not worth it. you'll get worse mpg, an engine that requires more maintenance, a tranny that isn't as good, and a car that doesn't handle as good for the same price as a V6.

Explain? The 4.6L 3V isn't a huge power maker by today’s standards, but it's a rock solid engine that requires nothing more than changing the oil on a regular basis to function. Otherwise, it's maintenance free.

The statement "a tranny that isn't as good" is kind of misleading as well. The new 6-speed may have an additional gear with shorter gear spacing, but the TR3650 is an equally excellent transmission. Tough as nails, low maintenance, smooth shifting and durable as they come.

I'll agree with the mileage and handling though....but then again you'd be surprised what a lot of people will accept as a trade off to maintain that beautiful V8 exhaust note.

I'd personally go with the '10 GT over the '11 V6. I could live with 25mpg over 30mpg and to me...torque is more important than horsepower...which the V8 engine still has plenty of by comparisons to the V6. Handling is more than adequate for daily driver duties and since I'm never going to be running a road course, the handling capabilities of the '11 V6 aren't a real make it or break it choice.

It pretty much comes down to style and power for me. Since both cars boast the same style, that part is a draw. The GT is still marginally more powerful, with the low end torque output being the deciding factor between the two in a stop light acceleration contest. And since the aftermarket for the 4.6L 3V is already hugely populated with parts....and the '11 V6 parts are still under development, the choice for the performance potential aspect (at least for the next few years) is a pretty strait forward one for me?

payupsucka · Sep 27, 2010

Gearbanger 101 said:
Explain? The 4.6L 3V isn't a huge power maker by today’s standards, but it's a rock solid engine that requires nothing more than changing the oil on a regular basis to function. Otherwise, it's maintenance free.

The statement "a tranny that isn't as good" is kind of misleading as well. The new 6-speed may have an additional gear with shorter gear spacing, but the TR3650 is an equally excellent transmission. Tough as nails, low maintenance, smooth shifting and durable as they come.

I'll agree with the mileage and handling though....but then again you'd be surprised what a lot of people will accept as a trade off to maintain that beautiful V8 exhaust note.

I'd personally go with the '10 GT over the '11 V6. I could live with 25mpg over 30mpg and to me...torque is more important than horsepower...which the V8 engine still has plenty of by comparisons to the V6. Handling is more than adequate for daily driver duties and since I'm never going to be running a road course, the handling capabilities of the '11 V6 aren't a real make it or break it choice.

It pretty much comes down to style and power for me. Since both cars boast the same style, that part is a draw. The GT is still marginally more powerful, with the low end torque output being the deciding factor between the two in a stop light acceleration contest. And since the aftermarket for the 4.6L 3V is already hugely populated with parts....and the '11 V6 parts are still under development, the choice for the performance potential aspect (at least for the next few years) is a pretty strait forward one for me?

AMEN.

arcwcb · Sep 27, 2010

^Couldn't agree more

AvalancheSVT · Sep 27, 2010

Gearbanger 101 said:
Explain? The 4.6L 3V isn't a huge power maker by today’s standards, but it's a rock solid engine that requires nothing more than changing the oil on a regular basis to function. Otherwise, it's maintenance free.

its a V8 which means it takes up more space, requires more plugs, wires, skinned knuckles, and its just not as good as the duratec V6. its old tech. its not BAD tech, it just isn't as good. there's a reason ford ditched the engine and went with a whole new family of engines. they did their learning on it and the duratec/coyote engines are the new evolution of ford engines. they've been working on the duratec stuff forever and it finally made it into the mustangs. ford is so confident in the engine that they boast a 10K oil change.

with this tech ford can make the same power with less displacement. do you honestly think that the guys at ford didn't specifically limit the 2011 V6 engine to 305hp for the explicit purpose of not interfering with existing 2010 GT sales? thats 10hp, dude. c'mon, thats a catback and a tune these days. its marginal at best and a driver's race.

at the end of the day it'll come down to this. the guys that want to V8 sound are the guys that are about form over function. thats fine but its like i tell the camaro guys, dont pretend like its the wise choice. just admit to yourself "yeah, it makes no logical sense, its just asesthetics, and i want that image".

maybe its a guy thats just extremely familiar with the modular engines and he likes them. awesome. i just think its silly to give up a great engine with a six speed, better handling, and significantly better mpg for image.

but then again i've always been about function over form.

It pretty much comes down to style and power for me. Since both cars boast the same style, that part is a draw. The GT is still marginally more powerful, with the low end torque output being the deciding factor between the two in a stop light acceleration contest. And since the aftermarket for the 4.6L 3V is already hugely populated with parts....and the '11 V6 parts are still under development, the choice for the performance potential aspect (at least for the next few years) is a pretty strait forward one for me?

oh the performance potential magazine bench racer enthusiast fallback trump card. yeah, cause we dont live in a world where as fast as you wanna go is only decided by how deep your pockets are.

Ltngdrvr · Sep 27, 2010

Uh...

The 5.0 (coyote is just the developement code name) is part of the Modular engine family, same family as the 4.6 so Ford didn't drop anything, just updated and improved.

There is a huge amount of parts and support for the 4.6 and it is still a very viable motor for performance.

I'd still buy a 2010 4.6 car if the price was right and I had the extra money, but I would buy the 2011 V6 performance package first, it's a great car for a daily driver as well as a play toy.

scupking · Sep 27, 2010

MakotoS13 said:
its a V8 which means it takes up more space, requires more plugs, wires, skinned knuckles, and its just not as good as the duratec V6. its old tech. its not BAD tech, it just isn't as good. there's a reason ford ditched the engine and went with a whole new family of engines. they did their learning on it and the duratec/coyote engines are the new evolution of ford engines. they've been working on the duratec stuff forever and it finally made it into the mustangs. ford is so confident in the engine that they boast a 10K oil change.

with this tech ford can make the same power with less displacement. do you honestly think that the guys at ford didn't specifically limit the 2011 V6 engine to 305hp for the explicit purpose of not interfering with existing 2010 GT sales? thats 10hp, dude. c'mon, thats a catback and a tune these days. its marginal at best and a driver's race.

at the end of the day it'll come down to this. the guys that want to V8 sound are the guys that are about form over function. thats fine but its like i tell the camaro guys, dont pretend like its the wise choice. just admit to yourself "yeah, it makes no logical sense, its just asesthetics, and i want that image".

maybe its a guy thats just extremely familiar with the modular engines and he likes them. awesome. i just think its silly to give up a great engine with a six speed, better handling, and significantly better mpg for image.

but then again i've always been about function over form.

oh the performance potential magazine bench racer enthusiast fallback trump card. yeah, cause we dont live in a world where as fast as you wanna go is only decided by how deep your pockets are.

The 4.6 may be older technology but its a great reliable engine that sounds awesome. I test drove an 07 GT this past weekend with the five speed manual and loved it. Part of owning a muscle car is the experience. The sound and tq of the v8 is a big part of that. The new v6 is a great car and actually sounds very good for a v6 but you have to remember the 05-09GTs have 40lbs more tq (320 vs 280) then the v6.

AvalancheSVT · Sep 27, 2010

Ltngdrvr said:
Uh...

The 5.0 (coyote is just the developement code name) is part of the Modular engine family, same family as the 4.6 so Ford didn't drop anything, just updated and improved.

There is a huge amount of parts and support for the 4.6 and it is still a very viable motor for performance.

I'd still buy a 2010 4.6 car if the price was right and I had the extra money, but I would buy the 2011 V6 performance package first, it's a great car for a daily driver as well as a play toy.

thats really irrelevant since im mainly talking about the duratec motors.

i thought the 5.0 was all revised and stuff, oh well. in any case, the evolutionary thing still applies. i wasn't knocking the 4.6 at all, of course it has tons of performance potential but for every ten thousand kids on the internet that parrot that maybe one guy actually explores that potential.

gmantheman · Sep 28, 2010

I do like the 2011 V6 but I would choose a used GT. Can't be the sound and the tq down low. The Duratec engine is not new. It's been around for over 10 years.

Gearbanger 101 · Sep 28, 2010

MakotoS13 said:
its a V8 which means it takes up more space, requires more plugs, wires, skinned knuckles, and its just not as good as the duratec V6. its old tech. its not BAD tech, it just isn't as good. there's a reason ford ditched the engine and went with a whole new family of engines. they did their learning on it and the duratec/coyote engines are the new evolution of ford engines.

Wait…what? Did I just hear you right? Did you just say the 4.6L was inferior because you had two extra spark plugs to change when doing a tune up?!? Skinned knuckles? It doesn’t get any easier than changing plugs on a 4.6L 3V. They’re all right there at the top of the engine, staring you in the face.

Do we really want to argue over which set of spark plugs is easier to get to here?

3.7L TiVCT

4.6L 3V

I hope you don’t mind removing an intake manifold when it comes time to do a plug change.

And more wires??? I’m going to assume you mean general under hood wiring/electronics, since neither vehicle actually uses spark plug wires. Have you actually taken a look at the plethora of wires and sensors involved in the new TiVCT engines? It’s uncanny. Simplicity certainly isn’t the first word that comes to mind.

Seriously though, those are retarded points to make.

Yes, the new 3.7L sports Variable cam timing, but then so does the 4.6L 3V. The difference being the 4.6L 3V’s is completely mechanical in its operation and the 3.7L’s isn’t. Yes, the 3.7L TiVCT has the potential to vary the rates at which cam timing occurs...which is what's responsible for it's 30hp increase and added fuel economy over the previous 3.7L engine. Otherwise though, the new 3.7L has no major design advantage over the 4.6L what so ever. Sure they’ve got 4V cylinder heads, but they don’t move nearly as much air as the previous 3V castings. The 3V castings actually outperform the last generation 4V V8 heads handily in low and mid lift areas. They were only bested by the 4V heads in the upper regions at peak airflow and even then only slightly.

Look, I’m not downing the accomplishments made with the 3.7L TiVCT engine. 305hp is a pretty impressive feat…but the design itself won’t be truly revolutionary until Ford pairs it with direct injection…and that’s not happening anytime soon. To brand it an instant champion over a tried and true mill like the Modular V8 before it’s even had a year under its belt is plain reckless speculation at best. I’m sure it’ll live up to the hype we all hope it will, but until then, you let me know when the 3.7L TiVCT makes Wards top 10 best engines available in North America for 4-years in a row like the 4.6L 3V did.

MakotoS13 said:
do you honestly think that the guys at ford didn't specifically limit the 2011 V6 engine to 305hp for the explicit purpose of not interfering with existing 2010 GT sales? thats 10hp, dude. c'mon, thats a catback and a tune these days. its marginal at best and a driver's race.

And do you honestly think Ford didn't limit the output of the 2010 Mustang 4.6L for the explicit purposes of making the all new 2011GT look that much more impressive when it came out the following year? Marketing strategy works both ways pal.

Sure, the difference between the incoming V6 and the outgoing V8 is only 10hp on paper....but it's 10hp that occurs 500RPM earlier in the power band, and is backed with an additional 45lbs/ft of torque....most of which is also seen earlier in the power band. I mean if you really want to get down to capability of engines alone…the new V6 wouldn’t be nearly as quick a car as it is without the backing of the new 6-speed close ratio transmissions to keep the engine in it’s powerband. The 6-speed trans in the V6 is less of a luxury and more of a necessity if you ask me. And like the above mentioned marketing strategy the "more power is just a catback and tune away" statement works for both vehicles. There are guys adding 30-40hp to their existing 3V engines with just a catback and tune. Until we see those kinds of numbers duplicated or improved upon with the new 3.7L any speculation with regards to the engines "potential" is just internet banter.

MakotoS13 said:
at the end of the day it'll come down to this. the guys that want to V8 sound are the guys that are about form over function. thats fine but its like i tell the camaro guys, dont pretend like its the wise choice. just admit to yourself "yeah, it makes no logical sense, its just asesthetics, and i want that image".

Says the kid that owns neither car. Last time I check…315hp/325lbs ft/tq was more than 305hp/280lbs ft/tq. I guess you get a little bit more than just the “V8 Sound” with the old 3V, huh? And let’s not forget the aftermarket availability for each engine to seal the deal. I mean…I guess if you want to wait around another 1-3 years for bolt on parts and tuners to squeeze the kind of power out of these engines you’re so convinced they have locked up in them out…then that’s your deal. If it were my cabbage though, I’d look into any one of the already accessible 350-550hp options already available for the 4.6L engine if widening the power gap was my goal. But hey…I guess I’m more of a “real” function over form kind of guy.

MakotoS13 said:
i just think its silly to give up a great engine with a six speed, better handling, and significantly better mpg for image.

Just so convinced that “image” has to be the only reason a person would choose to go with the V8 option, huh? I guess the higher power potential of the larger displacement engine has nothing to do with it. And calling a guy image driven because he prefers the sound of a throaty V8 over the high widing buzz of theV6 is about as silly as calling a guy who prefers to give up the added power supplied by the V8 for the the fuel mileage of the V6 a tree hugging hippy. They’re both unfounded statements based on little more than envy.

MakotoS13 said:
but then again i've always been about function over form.

Based on parameters set by your own flawed logic I suppose.

MakotoS13 said:
oh the performance potential magazine bench racer enthusiast fallback trump card. yeah, cause we dont live in a world where as fast as you wanna go is only decided by how deep your pockets are.

I’m not sure where that came from, but did the kid trying to convince me that the 3.7L V6 has more power potential over the proven 4.6L V8 before any aftermarket parts are even available for the engine yet just call me a bench racer?

gmantheman · Sep 28, 2010

I guess if you want more of a sports car feel, then get the V6 and if want the feeling of muscle car then the get the V8.

STANGmole · Sep 28, 2010

MakotoS13 said:
oh the performance potential magazine bench racer enthusiast fallback trump card. yeah, cause we dont live in a world where as fast as you wanna go is only decided by how deep your pockets are.

...and the displacement of your engine

Am I the only one who sees the irony of the "magazine bench racer enthusiast" comment?

We get it MakotoS13! You dig the V6. Have you bought one? Can you comment firsthand on the excellent gas mileage (you're ACTUALLY getting in real life and real world driving conditions) and 0-60-1/4mile times you've been pulling?...and what cool horsepower enhancing mods have you done to your car (oh...I forgot...you're the guy that can't be troubled to change two extra spark plugs or do an oil change with under 10K on the odometer).

I'm waiting for you to start posting the real firsthand facts instead of the "magazine bench racer enthusiast" performance numbers based on speculation and hype published to sell new cars that you keep regurgitating over and over....

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're entitled to your opinion (and to bash my comments every time I post something saying that the 2010 GT "might" be a better value than the 2011 V6) but I think we'd all respect you more if you actually put your money where your mouth is at the dealership and at the track.

AvalancheSVT · Sep 28, 2010

Gearbanger 101 said:
Wait…what? Did I just hear you right? Did you just say the 4.6L was inferior because you had two extra spark plugs to change when doing a tune up?!? Skinned knuckles? It doesn’t get any easier than changing plugs on a 4.6L 3V. They’re all right there at the top of the engine, staring you in the face.

1. thats called a strawman fallacy. not only did i not say the 4.6 was inferior
and 2 estra plugs/wires isn't a big huge cataclysmic deal but you're acting like thats the cornerstone for what i said.

Look, I’m not downing the accomplishments made with the 3.7L TiVCT engine. 305hp is a pretty impressive feat…but the design itself won’t be truly revolutionary until Ford pairs it with direct injection…and that’s not happening anytime soon. To brand it an instant champion over a tried and true mill like the Modular V8 before it’s even had a year under its belt is plain reckless speculation at best. I’m sure it’ll live up to the hype we all hope it will, but until then, you let me know when the 3.7L TiVCT makes Wards top 10 best engines available in North America for 4-years in a row like the 4.6L 3V did.

2. the duratec engines are found in almost every car ford makes (and many mazdas) in some form or another for the last 10 years or so. but yeah, i mean, you're probably on to something there...

And do you honestly think Ford didn't limit the output of the 2010 Mustang 4.6L for the explicit purposes of making the all new 2011GT look that much more impressive when it came out the following year? Marketing strategy works both ways pal.

3. right, thats what ford was thinking back before 05 when they were redesigning the 4.6 to keep it competitive in the marketplace. c'mon, don't be a fanboy. ford had to up the displacement and add the new technology to bring the GT engine up to where it will be competitive out the door and in the performance marketplace for years to come.

they had to hit that 400hp mark and doing it with the 4.6 must not have been cost effective in the long term.

Sure, the difference between the incoming V6 and the outgoing V8 is only 10hp on paper....but it's 10hp that occurs 500RPM earlier in the power band, and is backed with an additional 45lbs/ft of torque....most of which is also seen earlier in the power band. I mean if you really want to get down to capability of engines alone…the new V6 wouldn’t be nearly as quick a car as it is without the backing of the new 6-speed close ratio transmissions to keep the engine in it’s powerband. The 6-speed trans in the V6 is less of a luxury and more of a necessity if you ask me. And like the above mentioned marketing strategy the "more power is just a catback and tune away" statement works for both vehicles. There are guys adding 30-40hp to their existing 3V engines with just a catback and tune. Until we see those kinds of numbers duplicated or improved upon with the new 3.7L any speculation with regards to the engines "potential" is just internet banter.

4. the 3.7 revs higher, too. you were saying something about an additional 500rpm of power?

Says the kid that owns neither car. Last time I check…315hp/325lbs ft/tq was more than 305hp/280lbs ft/tq. I guess you get a little bit more than just the “V8 Sound” with the old 3V, huh? And let’s not forget the aftermarket availability for each engine to seal the deal. I mean…I guess if you want to wait around another 1-3 years for bolt on parts and tuners to squeeze the kind of power out of these engines you’re so convinced they have locked up in them out…then that’s your deal. If it were my cabbage though, I’d look into any one of the already accessible 350-550hp options already available for the 4.6L engine if widening the power gap was my goal. But hey…I guess I’m more of a “real” function over form kind of guy.

5. thats called a genetic fallacy. you're asserting that i'm wrong because i dont own either car which is totally irrelevant. what is relevant, however, is my experience with the cars in question.

Just so convinced that “image” has to be the only reason a person would choose to go with the V8 option, huh? I guess the higher power potential of the larger displacement engine has nothing to do with it. And calling a guy image driven because he prefers the sound of a throaty V8 over the high widing buzz of theV6 is about as silly as calling a guy who prefers to give up the added power supplied by the V8 for the the fuel mileage of the V6 a tree hugging hippy. They’re both unfounded statements based on little more than envy.

6. its interesting appeal to emotion you have going on there. thats a fallacy also, BTW

Based on parameters set by your own flawed logic I suppose.

you're the one going down the list of logical fallacies like its a shopping list or something, chuckles.

I’m not sure where that came from, but did the kid trying to convince me that the 3.7L V6 has more power potential over the proven 4.6L V8 before any aftermarket parts are even available for the engine yet just call me a bench racer?

could you reference my claim to any kind of power potential about this duratec motor?

oh right, you can't. cause you're blowing smoke out of your butthole.

arcwcb · Sep 28, 2010

All fallacy fun aside, let's be honest, the 2010 GT puts out more power and more torque than a 2011 V6, while the V6 has better gas mileage and cheaper insurance premiums. Argument done. I don't know of anybody who has modded a 2011 V6 to the point that some people modded the 4.6 3v, so there is no way to measure power "potential" yet. Just give the OP a list of pros and cons. If you wanna say you like the V6 because it rode nice, or any other reason, then say it. You don't need to campaign the living s**t out of the V6 or say people who want a V8 rumble prefer "form over function". To each his own, lets just give the OP the info he wants and not try to be a douche to other people in the process.

Buy a used S197 GT or a NEW V6????

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