Calculating injector timing

I've been having the same dilema during the last 2 days.


When i did my first injector timing calculations based on EEC Analyzer "original" settings

"Initial Distributor Timing" = 10 ( i now know it sould be 0)

I've got a 35x nearly on all rows ( with a good datalog ) , ive round them to 360 on all rows , since then the car has a really good drivability stock settings was 300 (j4j1). I honestly didnt feel any diference but what is worth i put them in there and no problems.


But since yesterday i have been since new calculations from EA are more stock wise ( 300 ) rather 360.

The cam specs are this ones :

Intake Open : 1 BTDC
Intake Closes: 37 ABDC

Exh. Opens : 49 BBDC
Exh. Closes : -3 ATDC

Lift Intake: .500
Lift Exhaust: .510

Duration Advertised : 284 Intk. 292 Exh.
Duration @.50 : 218 Intk. 226 Exh.
Above Centerline 108 ( Wich says " This line will make this cam 4 deg. advanced"
) I dont know WTH they mean with this.

http://store.summitracing.com/instructions.asp?File=lun-51014lun.pdf

I am really confused with this parameters on EA.

If some one with more experience on the Injector timing would chime in for both of us i should be really apreciated




They were nice write ups on EEC Tuning, but the site right now is a toast, i hope they dont loose all the posts like when they were tweecer.opklink

Guys

I could not say I understand all that stuff as well

Several years ago, many of us at that time discussed that issue for several
days and I ended up using a value of 392 in all cells for my combo

I can say I found my idle was more stable and the cam lope was not
as radical which was a blessing to my way of thinking

My drivability has been quite good using that value

Much more knowledge has been learned by the self tuning
community since then. I might could go over all that stuff
again and make some improvement.
BUT
Doing all that is not very high on my priority list of things to do

Of course ... that old thread was lost when they had the big
change which was in name and server I suspect

Which brings up a another thing to consider

Anytime you see info that .........
you can use now
might use in the future
or
you might not understand it at the time you were exposed to it
but
you can tell ... its something important
etc, etc, etc

Set up on your hard drive a Tuning folder with sub folders for things
such as Closed Loop Tuning where you put your files on topics like
lambse, kamrf, adaptive, etc. You would want a folder named Open
Loop Tuning for stuff on fuel&spark tables, high speed enrichment,
and so forth.

You'll end up with a database of info that will be of so much help and
you will find as your knowledge grows ... that stuff you put in there
that you did not understand at the time ... you now do and it is
right there on your hard drive for you to instantly use

Guys ... none of us can remember all that stuff

Some of the time ... you find some really good stuff ... and later ...
you want the info ...but ... you can't find ... or ... it was lost on
some server that crashed

Here is one really BIG bummer about not saving good stuff as you
run across it

Many times you guys ask about something I understand
As a matter of fact ............. Once upon a time ..............
Right here on this very site ................
I gave info with charts or tables or other very detailed info
to help others understand

Some of that stuff took me a good while to compile for all to see

I don't even wanna do it all over again
so
Why not point peeps to the thread as the info is still valid

Lots of the time ... I can't find the info
and
Its my own dadgum post I'm looking for

I know the info the info is on the site all right
but
Its usually buried in some thread where the topic of conversation
had changed 180 degrees from the original posters Q

Anyway ... if you don't build for yourself a database of info ....
NOBODY else will

Grady

final5-0 said:

Anyway ... if you don't build for yourself a database of info ....
NOBODY else will

Click to expand...

Yes that is absolutely true , but none the less and not trying to make any comparing but the Stangnet Tuning forums are infinite more reliable than the tweecer forums, but not so full of peeps with the amount of knowledge that is on those forums.

Absolutely no comparing since the peeps choose what forums use. But in some times is absolutely depressing to some tweecer users like us , that there is no forum so far reliable enough to trust where to find information on tweecer, i mean i can search at least 4-5 forums of mustang and will have good information on the tweecer.

If some user of the tweecer forums reads this please chime in a post on what way we can help to recover or have online again those forums, because the forum database is absolutely needed.

I hope many of us here are in the same boat and yould like to contribute to help those forums.

But ohh well back to the topic.

Grady i am curious what make you push the injectors open at 392 , arent you dumping some fuel to the exhaust ( i dont know if your cam have some slope so this situation is worse ) but according to help on the EA , ideally you should be opening the injectors some like 2 degrees before the Intake valve starts to open to help cooling the charge.


Grady i would like to ask another thing , I absolutely dont remember if us ( CBAZA ) have to make the calculations of the injector timing on the Start or the Stop Cycle. do you have any info on this??

So How important is injector timing?? Im set at stock 300 for all rows.....

Please understand ...some of the time
You guys got a better handle on this stuff than I do

I got started with this stuff in its infancy.
Not much was known about ANY pcm's
and
Certainly not much about our 94-95 pcm's

Heck ... Back then ... I did so much research trying to learn stuff
and
Then ... When I would put it into to play
I did not get the same benefit as all those other guys

Over time ... I discovered Fox and 94-95 was not the same

Some of the stuff I've learned ... I forgot
Some of the stuff I've done .............
I found the info from trial & error by looking at raw data

But over time I got decent drivability and WOT power

I'm not trying to show how smart I am by saying that
I am trying to show I wanted to learn
and to do it
I had to be persistent and not always believe or follow the masses
cause
The masses all drove Fox Stangs
and
Much of their info did not work for my 1995 GT Stang

Never the less .. as I discovered and learned things ......
I tried to share with all as I went along my journey ... you might say

Then versions of CalEdit, CalCon, and EEC Analyzer changed
and some peeps had issues that I was just not gonna deal with

Then some of my efforts that were documented on various sites
Well ... They were lost forever

I don't always have a good reason or understand how to help
when
You guys wanna know why I did this or that
and
This inj timing thing ... its is one of those times

I finally came to this kind of thinking and said to myself

Look Grady ... Even though you don't understand all that stuff
You got your Stang to drive like a stocker and make good power

Why would you wanna deal with having to know everything
and
Why would you wanna subject yourself to software that
makes you learn things all over again
or
Software that makes you analyze your data differently

I've not kept up with the latest & greatest
and
My decision to do that has been done in my best interest ... IMHO
but
Some of the time ... I just ain't got it in me to know how to give a
good reason for why I did something I did ... a long long time ago.

I know you guys wanna learn
but
I don't know what to say except some info takes more effort to grasp
than others.

I do not think you are gonna find ........
One place where all the info can be found IMHO.

Grady

Guero said:

So How important is injector timing?? Im set at stock 300 for all rows.....

Click to expand...

So far i have not seen any improvements, or any goods, so unless i think you put some completely off values, i think there is absolutely no need to mess with it. i mean i barely move the injection 60 degrees advanced to the stock cobra values.

But as i will say below, if it could improve driveability,mpg,or power i think it could be a good think to learn and give it a shot

final5-0 said:

Please understand ...some of the time
Look Grady ... Even though you don't understand all that stuff
You got your Stang to drive like a stocker and make good power

Why would you wanna deal with having to know everything
and
Why would you wanna subject yourself to software that
makes you learn things all over again

Click to expand...

I agree in some part with you , hoewever i think that if there is a little room to do some improvements why not try it!

I think all can learn something new every day and if its for some good benefits either on driveability or power then its good to learn

And yes indeed grady, some thing i have learned is DO NOT USE EVERYTHING you read , cause the most ppl uses FOXES and their computers work internaly very different from ours

OK i was looking at my tuning files and all the help i gathered from this matter. and iI found the document i was talking about :

View attachment Tuning Injector_Timing.txt


I hope it can help

Ohh an BTW EECtuning.org its moving to another server , so hopfully this was not a bad crash just a simple hosting problem

m0l0 said:

I agree in some part with you , hoewever i think that if there is a little room to do some improvements why not try it!

I think all can learn something new every day and if its for some good benefits either on driveability or power then its good to learn

Click to expand...

I fear I did not make something clear

When I posted ............

Why would you wanna deal with having to know everything
and
Why would you wanna subject yourself to software that
makes you learn things all over again

I was talking about me and venting a bit about being told
things were being changed for the better and they were not.

I was not trying to say others should not strive to learn or get
involved with the latest trend of thinking
or
Choose to use the latest offering of software or hardware

I guess I was trying to say ..........
I got the job done to my satisfaction with ........
"Old School" thinking and methods

If I gotta trade known bugs for unknown bugs
or
Go to extra trouble and change my methods

I'll stay "Old School" until I see others doing
things with "Latest & Greatest" that is gonna
benefit me

Grady

a_k said:

I am also wondering this. EA defaults to the stop cycle on mine.

Click to expand...

Much talk has been made on the tweecer site about inj timing
but
They gotta get the site back up.

That site is one of my buttons on the task bar I use all the time
like the button I have to easily link up to StangNet. Those buttons
take me straight to my desired location rather than some main page.

Last night I went to their main page as opposed to the tuning forum
and saw a note saying they were moving to a different server.

When they get it back up ... I'd focus in on CBAZA users for more
specific details.

Grady

"When i did my first injector timing calculations based on EEC Analyzer "original" settings Initial Distributor Timing" = 10 ( i now know it sould be 0)"

Nope, use -10 in the EEC. -10 means the intial timing is 10 BTDC. 10 means 10 ATDC.

Using the EEC timing cals will yield better milage and better idle. I couldn't tell if HP changed.

Eric