cam install gone WRONG!!!

[da zman]

hey guys. i own a 99 corvette with an ls1... blah blah blah.... but i think i witnessed the stupidest thing ever last night.

i have NEVER messed with a modular motor but i knew the basics of the motor. i have done numerous installs on my cars including cam, heads, headers etc... but have never touched the 4.6. well i went to give my friend support last night after he bought these cams for his car. 236/240 495/495 and bought valve springs too. lol... just to let you know now how exciting our evening was - he did the install in 1.5 hours, if this tells you anything. he got in a hurry and DID NOT REPLACE THE SPRINGS!(after all of our advice he still did not change them) he took the valve covers off and that was it, knocked the timing gear off and FORCED the new cam in. it would not set down in the saddle of the cam bearings so he installs the plate to keep it downand just mashes the cam down... idk how bad/good this was. but now when he TRIED to start the car it was locked up. starter would not budge it. i have NO idea what to tell him. what do you guys think????

thanx

mike

 

[CanadaStang]

Eeeep!!!
Tell him to go buy a shop manual,and a case of beer. Then start over.

 

[mustang70]

He might have screwed up the cam saddles. I believe there aren't any bearings for the cams. So he might have to get new heads.

 

[DBMSTNG]

the cam timing is wrong.

 

[stangman]

did he use the cam tool??? if so he needs to not use that thing, & start over from scratch & go by these two guides

http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=39

http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=articlesdet&aid=32


if there are any more questions, just ask i've done it before a couple times, so i may be of some help to you

 

[DBMSTNG]

oh yeah, almost forgot...

your friend is an idiot.

that is all.

 

[stangman]

oh yeah, almost forgot...

your friend is an idiot.

that is all.

that goes without saying.

you HAVE to take your time on cam installs, especially the 1st time. it took me a full weekend, granted i did it twice (we wont go there), but i took my time & didn't cut any corners what-so-ever

 

[CanadaStang]

oh yeah, almost forgot...

your friend is an idiot.

that is all.

 

[da zman]

thanx for the links...

i really wish i could have had it on video, he is deffinitely a retard for what he did. LOL. so should he have taken off the timing cover or are you able to do the entire install with ONLY the valve cover removed???

mike

 

[da zman]

a little more info on what happened:

when he tried to start the car it turned over a few times WITH metal to metal sounding contact and then he released the ignition then tried it again and it was just locked up at that point.....

 

[stangman]

if he tried for longer than that, he may possibly have valve damage. as far as the timing cover part, yes you 'can' do it with in place with the cam tool. i HIGHLY recommend avoiding this. i tried it that way first, ended up skipping link & for piston to valve contact (ptv). the difference was i checked it by hand first so i didn't have any damage.

i would NEVER try doing it this way again. i like being able to set up the timing myself & see it right in front of me. if you do it the other way you can't see it (the timing) & if there is the slightest bit of slack in the chain, you can skip a link or 3. the timing is intimidating when you are reading about it, but once you see it all in front of you it's a piece of cake

 

[da zman]

thanx c2see21, he didnt have any type of cam tool. he just pryed the gear off the cam and then just pryed the new cam in place and layed it into the saddles. the cam would NOT lay in the saddles it had to be pryed down, i guess from the valve springs being in under it, idk. but it was not a sophisticated operation by any meassure. i was cringing the whole time.

mike

 

[Boosted98GT]

a little more info on what happened:

when he tried to start the car it turned over a few times WITH metal to metal sounding contact and then he released the ignition then tried it again and it was just locked up at that point.....

the cam timing is wrong.

Bingo. He has serious PTV issues. If there is enough force to stop the motor from turning over, chances are your buddy better be looking for a new motor.

 

[mity2]

thats bad. There is no bearing on cam cap on 4.6 i think.
he might need to get new head.

 

[da zman]

it gets better.... lol... i forgot to tell ya'll. we were doing it at this place in town were these foreign guys work on toyotas. well we told him that the cam was NOT torqued down, the bolts were put in with a freakin air wrench. they said that the cam bearings (???) were put on too tight. ( the caps were too tight to the saddle.) hahahahhaa... i mean surely to the good LORD THAT would not keep the motor from turing over... lol... caps being on too tight.... lol... hahahahahha...

any info of what i should tell him??

mike

 

[HMSPORT]

There are no cam bearings on any mod motors. The cam rides on the aluminum cam saddles. When bolting down the top saddle girdle CARE must be taking in order of not cracking/breaking the peice. They are not available seperatly. If the motor does not turn over (breaker bar on crank bolt), I would say wrong valve timing= bent valves.

 

[mity2]

There are no cam bearings on any mod motors. The cam rides on the aluminum cam saddles. When bolting down the top saddle girdle CARE must be taking in order of not cracking/breaking the peice. They are not available seperatly. If the motor does not turn over (breaker bar on crank bolt), I would say wrong valve timing= bent valves.

Ya i forgot to say about bent Valve. guy really messed it up. If(and mostlikely) cam cap bearing serface is scared, u need new cylinder head as they are line bored with cap bolted to head, prolly need new Valve as they are mostlikely bend, and piston serface is messed up. If valve is broke off, then chances are cylinder bore is scared as well. And prolly motor wouldn't turn, because broken valve is jammed and siezed motor!
Sound like full rebuilt is in future.

 

[mity2]

Ya i forgot to say about bent Valve. guy really messed it up. If(and mostlikely) cam cap bearing serface is scared, u need new cylinder head as they are line bored with cap bolted to head, prolly need new Valve as they are mostlikely bend, and piston serface is messed up. If valve is broke off, then chances are cylinder bore is scared as well. And prolly motor wouldn't turn, because broken valve is jammed and siezed motor!
Sound like full rebuilt is in future.

i have NO idea what to tell him.

i do. tell him his a moron

 

[stangman]

thanx c2see21, he didnt have any type of cam tool. he just pryed the gear off the cam and then just pryed the new cam in place and layed it into the saddles. the cam would NOT lay in the saddles it had to be pryed down, i guess from the valve springs being in under it, idk. but it was not a sophisticated operation by any meassure. i was cringing the whole time.

mike

i only see bad things from this, but pray that nothing is completely fubared.

you have to take the front cover off, take chain tensionsers off, take the cam sprockets off, then the cam will come straight out (after the cam caps are off of course). then you lay the new cam in the head with the sprocket back on the cam (may require a slight turning to the cam). then i tightened the rear cam cap on, so when i was putting the timing chains back on the cam sprockets, the back of the cam wouldnt' come up out of the saddles. also be careful with the cam lobes, cause those buggers are sharp

 

[Chopper1]

If the engine turned over and then refused to move again the LEAST you have is a bent valve.The repair list goes up from there.