Cammed bolt on Fox vs Cammed LT1 who wins?
- Thread starter StarFox07
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25thmustang
Mustang Master
Without timeslips and proof all these near stock cars are beating easy mid 13 second and faster cars... it's all just he said she said. MY car would have a problem with a cammed bolt on LT1, and I would not consider what I run to be bolt on timeslips (unless you guys out there with bolt ons are duplicating them)!
This I think would be a close one if you can drive halfway decent. If it were an LS1 I'd say see you later, but you might be able to hang with it. I can hang with lightly modded LT1's in my 5spd DD all day long when I'm running my 75 shot which puts my right at about 310 crank horsepower. I think he might edge you out but I don't think you'd get totally walked. Only one way to find out I suppose. Just race em and find out.
Because he's babying it. I have a friend w/ a 94 LT1 6 speed Vette and he ran 14.6 in it on street tires, but he won't drive it hard. It's mostly stock as far as I know. I think he took the mufflers off. It's 300 flywheel hp as far as I remember. He definitely should have been in the 13's if he would have put the pedal to the metal and maybe 12's w/ some drag radials or slicks.
the LT1 vettes have traction control that defaults "on" so its hard to run good times if you don't turn it off ( I used to work at a gm dealership). a friend of mine has a LT4 grand sport an with bolt ons he's a threat to hit 11's every time he runs. giving up 48 cubs is hard to over come with bolt ons.
I used to have a 94 Lt1 camaro...completely stock with a slp catback and AOD and i ran a best of 14.1 at 99 with a 1.9 60' with bad tires.
Now i have a 88gt 5 spd with a E cam and full exhaust/CAI/MASS, took it to the track once, best run was a 15.2 at 91with no better than a 2.2 60'. But this was with clogged cats, and a huge vaccuum leak.
Even tho, I know my AOD lt1 was alot faster than my 5spd 5.0.
Now i have a 88gt 5 spd with a E cam and full exhaust/CAI/MASS, took it to the track once, best run was a 15.2 at 91with no better than a 2.2 60'. But this was with clogged cats, and a huge vaccuum leak.
Even tho, I know my AOD lt1 was alot faster than my 5spd 5.0.
blackened88lx
Active Member
There is a very substantial power difference. A properly running and tuned cam/bolt on lt1 could have 100 rwhp on a stock fox with an e cam. The I raced this and I raced that bs doesn't mean anything. Who knows if the car is an untuned roach with the worst driver in existance, or a strong running combo with a pro behind the wheel.
Regardless of what people have beat with whatever mods, a similarly modded lt1 is a much faster car, period. You SHOULD get your ass handed to you. But, there is a slight chance you might get lucky.
25thmustang
Mustang Master
I agree, if you win its because of an error whether on tune, driver, conditions, etc... Not taking the win away, just saying there are reasons for it. The LT1 is a faster car, bottom line.
I used to own an LT1 Formula Firebird (275 hp stock). Watching a bunch of them at the track, the only "stock" 5.0 I've ever seen hang within 1/10 of a second of them is the 93 LX I have now. When my friend had it he put Mickey Thompson ET's on it and bypassed the smog, full exhaust and a march ram air kit. He was running 9.0-9.2 in the 1/8 and the LT1's generally run 8.9-9.0 on factory tires. On the top end nothing but an LS1 will beat them and as far as 5.0's go nothing will. I know my 01GT wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with my old Formula. I miss that car but it was a POS that broke down after 80k miles. An LT1 will RAPE you on the highway.
ninety15.0
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- Mar 10, 2004
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Yea mine was a 95... Those cars are awesome in stock fashion
Too bad they weren't built to last.
BigHairyMonkey
Founding Member
exactly. all you people that say that you walk all over modded ls1's are either racing 6s, the people you are racing decide your not worth their gas so they laugh as they peddle it in 6th, or the people you race make 3 layer sandwich's between their shifts. Other than those selections...
I tend to believe my car lands on the faster end of fox's with my mods (cai, gears, h-pipe, shifter) due to my track times. I have not seen similarly equipped cars run faster than me on a street radial. period. And ill be the first to tell you i get MOLESTED by ls1's. Its not even remotely close. Do i get angry and curse god and his creation of the unbeatable ls1 motor? no. I just pray **** doesn't break before my next check so i can get some more parts and close the gap
Ill even give you ls1 beaters the benefit of the doubt on your driving skills. Congrats, you still CAN NOT and i repeat CAN NOT close a 10mph difference in trap speed. period.
ninety15.0
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How did we get to talking about LS1's....thats not the dispute here. There's quite a difference between a 275- 285fwhp LT1 and a 325-335fwhp LS1...40-60hp in fact!! So you have a lightly modded stock fox and you run high 13's, which is exactly where a stock LT1 runs. I don't think they are as untouchable as you guys think they are! I'm not going to say I've beaten tons of LT1's, because honestly I've never had a good race with one...but I'm pretty sure I know how it would end ;-)
25thmustang
Mustang Master
Well ninety15.0 with your motor I sure hopw you would beat bolt on a lightly modded LT1s. We had a similar less modded motor running low 12s high 11s in my dads 91, and first time out detuned, in a stock chassis street car went 12.6 @ 107. Now a bolt on, cammed, LT1 on DRs, I think might surprise even you. I have known a few guys with this type of Lt1 set up going well into the 12s.
They arent untouchable, but guys with 14 second fox bodies who walk around thinking they can beat them without any knowledge base around them, can get annoying from time to time. Especially when the argument around the fact that the 5.0 is faster, is roughly based around a few guys racing a couple of LT1s without knowing their mods or state of tune/driving. Back when my car ran mid 14s I beat an LS1 Vette at the track 3 times in a row. If we use one or two experiences to generalize, then a C5 Vette is a mid to high 14 second car in my eyes, and I at least have timeslips to prove myself.
They arent untouchable, but guys with 14 second fox bodies who walk around thinking they can beat them without any knowledge base around them, can get annoying from time to time. Especially when the argument around the fact that the 5.0 is faster, is roughly based around a few guys racing a couple of LT1s without knowing their mods or state of tune/driving. Back when my car ran mid 14s I beat an LS1 Vette at the track 3 times in a row. If we use one or two experiences to generalize, then a C5 Vette is a mid to high 14 second car in my eyes, and I at least have timeslips to prove myself.
ninety15.0
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I hear where your coming from 25th, I also get upset when people with light mods think their cars are making 300hp because they added up all the advertised gains from their mid pipe, cat-back, and CAI. Then they think their car will run with true 300hp cars because it FEELS fast. There's a big difference between ripping around town in 1st and 2nd gear and still pulling HARD in 4th!! I guess its been a while since I've been in a stockish 5.0...I am probably forgetting how slow they really are. I also agree with the fact that an E-cam on a stock HCI car is almost pointless and that LT1's respond excellently to cam swaps alone. I think camaro gearing is terrible and a fox with gears can make up for part of the power deficit. Who knows...its a driver's race.
25thmustang
Mustang Master
I agree there, and I just drove a stock 5.0 with an intake and exhaust and it is surprising how slow it felt. After that I was in mine and it felt good to have to peal it through all of second. The deal with the LT1s is even with junk gears the are very good cars for launching. They come out hard and make up for the gearing. Toss in a set of 3.42s and some DRs and if the rear lasts the car should be in the mid 1.7 60's all day. I just know that an average LT1 is a low 14s high 13s car, whereas an average fox (bone stockers) is a mid to higher 14s car. Take into account that E cam might even be hurting, and the cam in the Fbody is just waking it up, and you have a decent gap expanded by up to half a second more.
Oh well, I dont own an LT1, or a stock 5.0 anymore. Go race and let us know the outcome.
Oh well, I dont own an LT1, or a stock 5.0 anymore. Go race and let us know the outcome.
rj95svt
Member
I have had alot of experience with lt1 cars and I'll say that the cars are pretty fast. I had a friend with a bolt on 6speed 94 Z28 with 3.73's in it and I drove the car racing a 98 ls1 z28 and we was pulling away at the top end of third gear. but in a 1/8th mile race my 91gt was right there side by side with him. He had drag radials and the best either of us could do in that car was a 8.78. My 91 gt ran a best of 8.81 on street radials but I could jump him over a length off the line and he would fly by me right at the stripe. The cars have like a 2.65 1st gear ratio. For a 1/8th mile race I would say that you have a chance (if your a good driverand have sticky tires) but in a 1/4 I would bet he will outrun you by more than a length. just my .02 cents!
ill advised
Member
I'm still trying to figure out bditty 50's post because there is just no way he could have been referring to LS1s. lol
I had some good battles with LT1s back when all I had was gear, exhaust & shifter. The LT1s in my area were usually automatics and rarely had more than aftermarket mufflers. For instance, one of my friends had a '94 TA (auto) with exhaust. I beat him the majority of the time but we always finished within a car length of each other. Another had a stock 97 Z28, also an auto, and his car was clearly quicker than the other guy's TA. If I remember correctly the later LT1 got a small bump in power. On the street/quarter it was pretty much a driver's race. Meaning: if I got out in front I might be able to hold them off...if I had a less than stellar launch it was over. The one 6-speed I ran into was just flat-out too strong. On the freeway it was lights out. didn't matter if it was a stick or auto.
The cam only thing doesn't really make sense (didn't read every post so maybe there's an explanation). I'm guessing he probably has open exhaust, which will have an LT1 sounding pretty mean (trashy even, but still mean). If that's the case then its definitley going to be a driver's race. The problem is that everyone is racing a different LT1 and we know not all cars are alike. A '97 6-speed Z28 is going to be quite a bit stronger than a '93 T/A automatic. Sort of like guys on other boards acting like every 5.0 runs like an AOD GT 1/4 times. An extreme example yes, but as mentioned there's also the condition of the car, state of tune......f-that. When's the race?!
I had some good battles with LT1s back when all I had was gear, exhaust & shifter. The LT1s in my area were usually automatics and rarely had more than aftermarket mufflers. For instance, one of my friends had a '94 TA (auto) with exhaust. I beat him the majority of the time but we always finished within a car length of each other. Another had a stock 97 Z28, also an auto, and his car was clearly quicker than the other guy's TA. If I remember correctly the later LT1 got a small bump in power. On the street/quarter it was pretty much a driver's race. Meaning: if I got out in front I might be able to hold them off...if I had a less than stellar launch it was over. The one 6-speed I ran into was just flat-out too strong. On the freeway it was lights out. didn't matter if it was a stick or auto.
The cam only thing doesn't really make sense (didn't read every post so maybe there's an explanation). I'm guessing he probably has open exhaust, which will have an LT1 sounding pretty mean (trashy even, but still mean
). If that's the case then its definitley going to be a driver's race. The problem is that everyone is racing a different LT1 and we know not all cars are alike. A '97 6-speed Z28 is going to be quite a bit stronger than a '93 T/A automatic. Sort of like guys on other boards acting like every 5.0 runs like an AOD GT 1/4 times. An extreme example yes, but as mentioned there's also the condition of the car, state of tune......f-that. When's the race?!Similar threads
