Car put me down......again. What now?

I'm sitting here waiting to head out. I was about to walk out earlier when y'all decided I needed to pull the car apart instantly... :jester: Gonna wait on Mike to chime back in as well before I leave. I appreciate the quick discussion.
 
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I really hate to throw out a "could be this", but I'm gonna this time..with a story.

When I got my '87, it had a bunch of problems. Randomly idle to 1600 rpms when ever it felt like, rough idle, a bunch of stuff. I ended up going through all the sensors and replacing them all with new Motorcraft ones. All my problems went away...or so I thought. Every day I drove it, it would shut off on me once. Could be 2 minutes after starting, could be 30 minutes. It was so random, I couldn't trace the problem, and no codes. It would only do this once a day, and I'd have to turn the key off then restart and everything was fine for the day....until the next day when it would do it again. I also replaced the ignition switch because it was coming apart. One day, I was running errands in the car and it shut off a second time. Left me stranded and had to get a pull home. Pretty embarrassing.

When I got home, on a whim, replaced the ignition module with an old one I had laying around. Started and ran fine. The brand new Motorcraft module was junk out of the box. Since this, I got a bunch of Motorcraft modules from the scrapyard and have been running those and haven't had a problem again. Also, keep two spares in the car just in case. Since then, I did the remote mount for the module on a heat sink to try to keep as much heat out of it as possible.

I guess my point is new bad parts is becoming so common now days, you just can't trust them.....even Ford parts.
This car has 250k+ on the body too and I'd trust it anywhere, anytime now. There's no reason these cars can't be daily driven...just have to find new parts that are good.
Dave

ETA: This car also has the mass air upgrade with parts out of a '89 car.
 
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Took the column wrap off. Grabbed the connector and there's zero movement between the two halves. What do ya think?


Nothing jumps out at me as a "yes you need to replace that" based on photo and lack of movement. Unplug the connector. How do the connections look? clean and free of burns?

I'd probably save my money for now...but keep it in the back of your head
 
So last year was when I bought that cheesy distributor and ended up taking it back. Not really because it was not a quality piece but because it didn't fix the car back then. I was fiddling around then and took the coil wire off the coil and the stud or post had just broken off the coil. That was giving me the shutting off deal back then. So I put a new coil on it and it was good. No more issues.
Fast forward to now. As you can imagine, the first thing I checked a few months ago when the shut offs started happening again was the coil. Nothing found. I decided to forget it and move on....I mean, it's NEW. So today before I head over to buy the distributor, and after talking with you guys, I started having doubts. Nothing new for me since I doubt everything...lol. Just in case, I removed the coil wire again. Post stayed in place and didn't move when I shook it....much. Got to my friends car lot where I was going to swap the distributor. There's a nice shady spot in the very back and new asphalt. No dirt! A buddy of mine happened to be over there and he walked over to see what I was doing with the hood up. I told him what I was doing and just for giggles, told him to remove the coil wire and see if he saw any movement from the post. The thing came apart again just like last year!! Junk parts I'm telling you! I can't see up right now on my phone but whoever posted that the word NEW means nothing anymore was exactly right. Dave!
Here's the good news. Lifetime warranty. I took the coil off and ran over to O'Reilly. They looked it up on my account since I didn't bring the receipt with me and gave me a new one...No charge. They said BWD, which was the one I bought last year, was bought out by Standard Motor Products. So the new one is the Blue Streak Standard Motor coil #FD478. I put it on and the car started up but it always did that. I'll drive it for a few days or weeks and hopefully this particular problem is fixed. Thanks for all the help. If it weren't for the discussion today making me pause a moment I'd have bought the distributor already....May still have to but we will see.

Thanks!
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New coil.

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For what it's worth, I just checked with Napa about their distributors and PIP coils. They told me that the distributors have a one year warranty, and the PIP coils have a 3 year warranty. I saw one of your previous posts about not knowing Napa's warranty on these..

I was having a pretty bad cut-out under load at around 50% throttle or more. It ran perfectly otherwise. I was switching out rotors, caps, etc and test driving it, then it just died on me and left me stranded.

I drug it home and I installed the closed bowl type of distributor (SN95) with a factory PIP in it, and butchered an old 92 Thunderbird harness for the TFI wiring and relocated my TFI to the core support. I used an old no-name brand TFI module from the junkyard and cut it in half to make a connector because my harness has been wrapped to where my TFI connector won't reach anywhere. After soldering I filled the "connector" with marine grade high heat epoxy.

It's been reliable so far, but I've only put about 200 miles on it. I will say the TFI module and heatsink, after being relocated, doesn't even get warm to the touch now.


Oh, and the rebuilt (Motorcraft casting) distributor I got from Napa about 1.5 years ago, the hole for the rotor shaft was drilled off-center in the distributor body/casting. To the point the rotor was hitting one of the terminals inside the cap and the reluctor wheel was hitting the pick-up on the PIP. The shaft wasn't bent and the bearings had zero play. So I ended up killing two birds with one stone by relocating my TFI and going to a SN95 style distributor. The wiring harness was easy to make once I sat down with the diagrams.


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Wire harness in progress.. You can see the SN95 style distributor round plug.
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I pulled my hair out for a year chasing down a hesitation in my car tha I thought was fuel related. Ended up buying a USED oem ford coil off eBay vs the new stuff out there today. I just don’t trust much of it for these old cars.....even motorcraft

Couple years ago i did tie rod ends on my daily. Within a month I felt something loose. Assumed it was the steering rack. Nope...my new Moog tie rod ends we’re junk.

Motorcraft just not like it used to be. Even the spark plugs all made by NGK now
 
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I pulled my hair out for a year chasing down a hesitation in my car tha I thought was fuel related. Ended up buying a USED oem ford coil off eBay vs the new stuff out there today. I just don’t trust much of it for these old cars.....even motorcraft

Couple years ago i did tie rod ends on my daily. Within a month I felt something loose. Assumed it was the steering rack. Nope...my new Moog tie rod ends we’re junk.

Motorcraft just not like it used to be. Even the spark plugs all made by NGK now
Dang. I like Moog parts. I think some Motorcraft is a notch above and some not worth the extra. The problem is you don't know which that applies to.
 
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Dang. I like Moog parts. I think some Motorcraft is a notch above and done not worth the extra. The problem is you don't know which that applies to.


I think new Motorcraft is fine. New as in a modern vehicle. A lot of it is the same supplier of parts for cars currently made

It’s old (decades old vehicles) motorcraft that I think has fallen off. Parts for a car that hasn’t been made in 30 years gets subbed out to the cheapest bidder as I imagine volumn is much lower
 
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Lol.... Thanks. I got mine when LMR was still selling them. Unless you find one that has been forgotten on a shelf somewhere, you won't get one. Sorry.
 
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So, a few thoughts. I daily drive the mildly built Black Jack, and I have reasonable faith in it, but it is the only Fox that's actually left me stranded to the point I had to call a friend to come get me. If you're dailying one of these cars, you've got to have some spare parts on the shelf ready to go:
- Distributor with TFI
- Coil
- Ignition Switch
- EEC
- Relays
- Plugs/Wires/rotor
- additional spare TFI with tool & thermal paste in the car at all times

Not only will you have replacement parts when these fail, but you'll also have a far simpler time diagnosing ignition issues.
You must also have the ability to bypass your MSD if you have one. BTW, the intermittent symptoms you're describing are identical to the ones I experienced before it left me stranded. I had the wires tucked into the fender and couldn't bypass it. I bought another extender from MSD so that the connector could reach the coil Before it totally died, it was impossible (for me) to diagnose, because by the time I was at my garage with the tools, the symptoms would clear up.

Now, if you have a multi-spark box, that's what I'd bet is causing your problems, but the right answer is to use Jrichker's lists and do the diagnostics in the manner & order he specified. Or, given the intermittent problem, replace the parts one at a time until your problem clears up.

One last thing, I would not personally daily mine if I didn't have an utterly reliable backup vehicle (a 2000 7.3 PSD F250 Super Duty). The dependable vehicle used to be my beater Saturn SL2, which was the most maintenance-free vehicle for 200k miles that I've ever owned while knocking down 40mpg & costing next to nothing for insurance. I couldn't have sold that car for much more than $500. I don't care how tight money is, you can afford one. Hell, I'd say if you're completely reliant on your Fox as primary transportation, then you can't afford not to have one. It would definitely take the stress off of you with regard to your Fox's unreliability.
 
Ok, I need to get some input. I'm tired of getting input....lol. I like to help others with their cars. I posted a thread in June about getting my car decent to drive. I had 10 or so items that very much needed to be done. This post, unfortunately, is not one of those items. Just when I was almost thru the important ones on that list you guessed it. Another put me down on the side of the road problem.

Three or four years ago I rebuilt my OEM distributor with a new PIP and new TIF. It lasted until about six months ago then started its crap again.

Y'all know I do not need one more thing on my plate right now...car or otherwise. I'm dealing with a family member that's ill and causing me great stress, huge lack of finances, and an old car that is driving me crazy. I try to post and encourage others about fixing their cars and knowing there's going to be some things come up. I am just the lucky soul that gets to have something come up every single week. No, I'm not joking. That, on its own, is difficult to deal with...even someone with money to constantly fix something would hate it. I hate leaving the house and never knowing if I'll be stranded. No, I can't afford AAA and honestly never even met anyone that has that. No one I know in my neck of the woods does anyway. My goal with the other thread was to fix the car to a point that it's just decent transportation. I don't want a simple trip to the next town to be a potential journey.

Back to today's problem. The car starts as it always has. Sometimes the shut-offs don't happen for a week. Then normally while on the interstate going 70mph it just hiccups once, twice or a few times. Sometimes it completely stops running. I always leave it in gear with the clutch out. When it decides to come back on it does and I keep rolling. Sometimes it takes me all the way down to 30mph to come back on. Many times there's an 18 wheeler behind me or a line of cars. If it doesn't come right back on I have to hit the emergency lane on the side of the interstate. This went on for a month or so. I was hoping it would totally die so I could be sure that whatever I did fixed it. Two weeks ago I finally decided that I'd go ahead and swap distributors. I have a couple of extra factory distributors so I grabbed a '90 one that's still got the factory PIP/TIF in place and put it in the car. Of course, the shutting off on the road went away and I could actually feel the difference in the two sets of electronics. The car seemed to run a bit smoother. Two weeks go by and I'm on my way home yesterday evening and I felt a stumble. I closed my eyes (while driving!) and told myself I did not feel that. Didn't matter. Five minutes later it started shutting off and then back on the rest of the way home.

Things I have come to notice..... When it shuts off I do not lose dash lights or gauges. As a matter of fact, nothing on the dash indicates anything different. It may buck and stumble a few times in a row or just once. All this has always been what I consider the PIP going bad. I still think that's what it is. If for example, it was a loose wire in some random spot that just lost electrical connection, the dash light or gauges would flicker or something. I do believe I'm just losing the fire. I've tried one of the Spectra Premium Distributors (FD17 from Oreilly $87) and it was the most flimsy piece of junk I've ever seen. I took it back after setting the timing and the whole thing flexing in my hand like plastic. When I rebuilt the distributor a few years ago I put the best PIP that NAPA had in there. I'm sick of things not lasting. My factory one lasted almost the whole time I've had the car. I can't get one to last 5 years now. I've replaced the ignition switch just a couple years ago. If the ignition was cutting out though the gauges on the dash would show it.

I have one other factory distributor with the factory PIP still in it that I can try. Not sure if that's worth it or not. This is just getting old. I'm almost back to my OTHER thread from a while back about giving up on the car and parking it for good. I don't have the money to do hardly any repairs on the car much less get another car. And of course the mustang is due tires in the next few months if not sooner. Never ends. Yes, I'm very discouraged. I've spent the last 5 or 6 years replacing almost every part on the car in hopes of getting it dependable.

New parts over that time: (think about all this added together and how much trouble I'm STILL having)
-New A/C system (compressor, drier, accumulator, condenser, etc....all parts)
-New cooling system (radiator, thermostat, hoses, heater core, fan blades, fan clutch, water pump, etc...
-New 130 amp alternator upgrade with wiring kit, battery, all grounds checked and replaced if needed
-New steering system (new Unisteer Kit w/ manual rack, ends, solid steering shaft...all parts new) Only done because I could not get the power steering to stop leaking.
-numerous other things like power windows motors, door lock actuators (lots), weatherstripping, new mufflers, new gaskets on the timing cover/water pump/thermostat, all new factory steel pulleys, new speedo cable, new coil, new wire and plugs, etc.

I have also added approximately 917,365 quarts of oil. The car is now using 1.5 quarts of oil every 750-800 miles on the dot. I don't even have to think about it anymore....750 miles comes I know in 50 more miles it's oil time. (oil is for another day so just fyi) I was working on a fix for the oil then the dang thing started shutting off again. Don't need oil if it won't run!!!

Anything y'all can post I'll be glad to read. It's just sad to me that I've put such an enormous amount of parts in the car and it's just as bad as when I started. And for the record, I put the best stuff I could find in most cases. Motorcraft heater core (this after 3 junk LMR ones), Bosch 130amp alternator, etc, etc. Still no luck. I've replaced almost everything except the actual long block and transmission! And I had the engine that's in there rebuilt a few years ago.

Shutting off...that's the immediate problem that I need to fix.
you need to buy this to check your TFI Module https://www.ebay.com/itm/2555371810...d=link&campid=5335821607&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

you also need to buy a 9volt battery, this TFI Module tester works amazing and comes with instructions on how to set it up and use it, 0nly 9 left in stock. no more buying dud TFI's, bring it with you while your at your auto zone parts store to test before you buy.
 

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