ok guys ive been driving my 89 mustang for several years now its got a cam heads intake exhaust and all the supporting goodies. its been running like crap for about the last month and im at a loss. at first i thought it was running lean now i think its running extremely rich or atleast it smells like it. so far ive replaced the air filter, MAF, checked the fuel pressure, replaced the O2 sensors, fuel filter, cap and rotor button. Nothing seemes to help one minute it seemes to be running fine the next it skipps studders and falls on its face. i pulled the codes... KOEO gave me first an 11 then im guessing it spit out memory codes after that 22, 33, 87, and 96. 33 is easy i dont have and egr system any more, 87 and 96 are from when i unplugged the inertia switch to change the fuel filter. KOER gave me 33, 44, and 94. any suggestions or ideas are welcome at this point. thanks guys...
Car running like crap... HELP!!!
- Thread starter thebullschmidt
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actually the problem more or less goes away when the car is warm and cruising down the road its wors when its first started when its cold or has sat for a few hours. ill change my signature later but for now it has bbk ssi intake 24# ford racing injectors, C&L maf and power pipe, trickflow stage 1 cam, windsor Jr heads, crane roller rockers, full msd ignition system, bbk long tubes and x pipe, a walbro 155 lph fuel pump, bbk adjustable fpr, underdrive pulleys... thats about all i can think of at this point
Code 22 is your main problem...
On a Mass Air car, the MAP sensor vents to open air and actually acts to sense the barometric pressure. It becomes a Barometric Air pressure sensor. It's purpose is to set a baseline for the computer to know the height above sea level. The fuel requirements decrease as altitude increases, since the atmospheric pressure decreases. As altitude increases, it leans out the fuel flow to compensate for less oxygen in the air.
Disconnecting the MAP or BARO sensor will set code 22.
Misconnecting the BARO sensor to vacuum on a Mass Air car will cause the computer to lean out the fuel mixture.
Code 22 or 126 MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range. The MAP or BARO sensor is pretty much the same sensor for both Mass Air & Speed Density cars. The main difference is where it is connected. Mass Air cars vent it to the atmosphere, while Speed Density cars connect it to the intake manifold vacuum. Its purpose is to help set a baseline for the air/fuel mixture by sensing changes in barometric pressure. The MAP or BAP sensor puts out a 5 volt square wave that changes frequency with variations in atmospheric pressure. The base is 154 HZ at 29.92" of mercury - dry sunny day at sea level, about 68-72 degrees. You need an oscilloscope or frequency meter to measure it. There a very few DVM with a price tag under $40 that will measure frequency, but there are some out there.
The MAP/BARO sensor is mounted on the firewall behind the upper manifold on 86-93 Mustangs.
Baro or MAP test using frequency meter - run the test key on engine off. The noise from the ignition system will likely upset the frequency meter. I used a 10 x oscilloscope probe connected from the frequency meter to the MAP/BAP to reduce the jitter in the meter's readout.
If it is defective, your air/fuel ratio will be off and the car’s performance & emissions will suffer
Some basic checks you can make to be sure that the sensor is getting power & ground:
Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.
Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery cable. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.
The following power on check requires you to turn the ignition switch to the Run position.
Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or EGR sensors. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.
On a Mass Air car, the MAP sensor vents to open air and actually acts to sense the barometric pressure. It becomes a Barometric Air pressure sensor. It's purpose is to set a baseline for the computer to know the height above sea level. The fuel requirements decrease as altitude increases, since the atmospheric pressure decreases. As altitude increases, it leans out the fuel flow to compensate for less oxygen in the air.
Disconnecting the MAP or BARO sensor will set code 22.
Misconnecting the BARO sensor to vacuum on a Mass Air car will cause the computer to lean out the fuel mixture.
Code 22 or 126 MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range. The MAP or BARO sensor is pretty much the same sensor for both Mass Air & Speed Density cars. The main difference is where it is connected. Mass Air cars vent it to the atmosphere, while Speed Density cars connect it to the intake manifold vacuum. Its purpose is to help set a baseline for the air/fuel mixture by sensing changes in barometric pressure. The MAP or BAP sensor puts out a 5 volt square wave that changes frequency with variations in atmospheric pressure. The base is 154 HZ at 29.92" of mercury - dry sunny day at sea level, about 68-72 degrees. You need an oscilloscope or frequency meter to measure it. There a very few DVM with a price tag under $40 that will measure frequency, but there are some out there.
The MAP/BARO sensor is mounted on the firewall behind the upper manifold on 86-93 Mustangs.
Baro or MAP test using frequency meter - run the test key on engine off. The noise from the ignition system will likely upset the frequency meter. I used a 10 x oscilloscope probe connected from the frequency meter to the MAP/BAP to reduce the jitter in the meter's readout.
If it is defective, your air/fuel ratio will be off and the car’s performance & emissions will suffer
Some basic checks you can make to be sure that the sensor is getting power & ground:
Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.
Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery cable. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.
The following power on check requires you to turn the ignition switch to the Run position.
Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or EGR sensors. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.
i did the fuel pressure test again on the off chance that my gauge was bad the preassure holds fine at idle when running but as soon as you turn the car off it drops off to about 9 psi which would tell me its either the check valve in fuel pump or the regulator so i clamped off the return line and preassurized the system again and it still dropped so im guessing its the fuel pump. anyone second that idea?
The check valve in the pump holds pressure so that the car will start or restart easier. It will not cause problems once the engine is up and running.
Go back and fix the code 22 problem, and that will fix your performance problem.
Go back and fix the code 22 problem, and that will fix your performance problem.
larrym1961
5 Year Member
I have a bad check valve in my feul pump also (which is getting fixed this weekend) The only thing it does is makes my car a littler harder to start after sitting over 6+ hours. 1 to 3 starts to get running, but once the engine is up and running, it runs great! So like jrichker says; that is not the problem.
ok cool so some new issues popped up after i did the fuel pressure test last night i went to leave my buddys shop and started down the road and it started skipping constantly as if several cylinders werent firing i didnt mess with anything or unplug anything that would cause it to do that and it was running fine before i did the test any clue? i dont immagine the fuel pressure test would have killed a few cylinders... and something i dont understand is the code 22 only popped up once then went away and hasnt came back up since
Here's the way to find cylinders that consistently misfire or they are weak:
Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.
See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.
How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.
With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open, crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 psi. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
See the link to my site for details on how to build your own blow down type compression tester.
Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.
See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.
How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.
With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open, crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 psi. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
See the link to my site for details on how to build your own blow down type compression tester.
ok guys got to working on the car saturday. i put a new fuel pump i oppted to upgrade to the walbro 255 big supprise it didnt fix anything... i started pulling plug wires one a time and found that cylinders 1,2, and 3 were dead. moved on to the compression test all cylinders tested 190-195 psi except cylinders 2, and 3 they were at 40 psi. pulled the head off and found there pretty much wasnt a gasket between the 2 cylinders. the plug in cylinder one looked pretty much fuel fouled im guessing at this point thats y it was dead. im taking the heads to the machine shop monday to have them checked and resurfaced if needed and parts are on order to put the engine back together hopefully this will resolve my issue thanks again for the help...
larrym1961
5 Year Member
I am glad you found the culprit! Unfortunatly my feul delivery work this weekend did not solve my feul pressure issues! only a bigger feul pump. And jrichKer, what can we say about this guy
!
!Don't let whoever put the engine together last time do it again.
No way those parts should have blown a head gasket.
That's got installation error written all over it.
ID89GT
10 Year Member
the windsor jr heads can be made emissions legal with a little help from a machine shop so they still have all the egr ports and stuff and i didnt have the bushing that threaded into the head and the one off the stock heads wouldnt come out so i got a heli coil that fit it and some how the 2 smaller bolts broke off in the head and it slowly pulled the heli coil out so it fell off... o quick question how long are you supposed to let new lifters soak in oil before installing them?
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