car STILL wont start

[Chuckman]

wasnt getting any response in my heater core thread, so maybe this will help.

i did figure out all my lighting problems, that all works, but the car still does not start. i still have a connector under the dash that doesnt have a home (seehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/chuckman/mustang/pics027.jpg and http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/chuckman/mustang/pics025.jpg)

ive started to go thru the no start checklist, checked the red injector wires and am getting 12 volts there, and am also getting power to the coil's red wire. i changed the coil last night, too, and it still wont start. didnt check if there was spark or not coming out of the new coil as the battery finally decided to die from so much cranking, ill let it sit on a charger today.

im so very stumped right now, i have no idea what to do next, dont know if that connector mentioned above does something or not, just pisses me off that something as simple as changing the heatercore will cause so many other problems.

 

[ss93cobra]

Links to pics. didn't work.
If the car started before the heater core job, but not after, then you did indeed miss something during assembly. Double check your work, try to get the link to work as well.
Or a link to your other thread with details on what you've already done would help....

 

[NascarFool]

Pic fix for ya.


Pic 1
View attachment 488691

Pic 2
View attachment 488693

 

[Chuckman]

thanks for that pic repost, photobucket was being retarded the other day and wouldnt do an image tag right, i tried a hyperlink today, obviously that didnt work either....

anyway, ive got the whole dash out again (cept for the metal frame) and still just can not find a place to plug that thing in to.

and heres a link to the old thread too
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=611975

 

[FordGuy88]

Did you check to see if the fuel pump is priming when you turn the car on? The only reasons cars dont start is there not getting one of the 3 air, spark, or fuel. So check the injectors to see if fuel is spraying out of them. Check the spark plugs to see if they are actually sparking. I did a mass air swap on my car and it wouldnt start either. But I found out later that there was a wire cliped and it was leading to the rear of my car and found out it was for the fuel pump. I believe I have that same connector and It dosent do anything. Hasnt caused any problems in my stang.

 

[bill302]

click on link below and look through wire diagrams and match wire colors to find proper plug in location i see you have 4 wires or maybe 3 in that plug exactally what colors are they its hard to tell in pics.

http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroke..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp

 

[HISSIN50]

SO the motor cranks on its own (you dont have to jumper the solenoid)? Just wanted to make sure your clutch safety switch was connected....

I would hit Jrichkers 'Cranks but no start' list and go through it. His list is systematic and can save time in the long run, rather than shotgunning different ideas as they occur.

Good luck.

 

[Chuckman]

SO the motor cranks on its own (you dont have to jumper the solenoid)? Just wanted to make sure your clutch safety switch was connected....

I would hit Jrichkers 'Cranks but no start' list and go through it. His list is systematic and can save time in the long run, rather than shotgunning different ideas as they occur.

Good luck.

yeah, ive looked into that and already crossed off several items on it. the only ones i havent checked are the TFI module and the PIP sensor. i dont get any spark from the coil (do get a 12v feed to it though, and havent checked spark since i changed the coil since the battery decided to die on me after about 3-4 cranks after changing coil). it is getting fuel, you can smell gas after it cranks a couple times and the plugs were wet with it when i pulled them, as well as i can hear the fuel pump priming.

the wires on that connector are blue/green, black/white, and iirc white/purple. ill look over the 90-93 ones too this time, someone may have switched em out sometime.

 

[HISSIN50]

yeah, ive looked into that and already crossed off several items on it. the only ones i havent checked are the TFI module and the PIP sensor. i dont get any spark from the coil (do get a 12v feed to it though, and havent checked spark since i changed the coil since the battery decided to die on me after about 3-4 cranks after changing coil). it is getting fuel, you can smell gas after it cranks a couple times and the plugs were wet with it when i pulled them, as well as i can hear the fuel pump priming.

the wires on that connector are blue/green, black/white, and iirc white/purple. ill look over the 90-93 ones too this time, someone may have switched em out sometime.

It looks like you can cross the PIP off the list. It supplies the computer with base timing for spark AND injectors. Your wet plugs suggest the PIP is working. You can put a noid light on an injector connector to confirm this, if desiring that thoroughness.

The negative signal for the coil comes from the TFI as I recall. So if you are not getting this at the coil, the TFI could be it. The TFI only deals with spark (Unlike the PIP). A parts store can bench test the TFI for you, if you desire.

Good luck.

 

[Ranchero5.0]

Possible you may have just plain flooded it and confused the snot out of the puter. You really need to just pull the coil wire and check for spark with a full battery. If it's not there you may have bunre dout the TFI from trying to start it so hard. Dad's '89 Gt used to wig out trying to start a new motor. Ended up removing the battery cables and holding them together to blank the memory. Then with the motor set up correctly it fired right off.

Jamie

 

[Chuckman]

thanks for the helping hand guys, ill see if i cant leave for work a bit early and get that tfi module tested out.

before i did the coil, i pulled the plugs and cranked a couple times to try to get rid of the excess fuel in the cylinders (if thats not the right way to do it let me know)

i take nobody knows what that connector above does do they? ive looked over those diagrams a few times, maybe the neutral safety switch? if it is, where would it go?

 

[HISSIN50]

While cranking (and only while cranking!), if one floors the pedal, it will cut the injector pulse to help clear a flood condition.

I was going to take another look at your pics, but they wont load right now.

Good luck.

 

[Chuckman]

well, thanks for trying anyway, if you get a change please look em over again, id much appreciate it.

was a bit slow getting moving this morning, and didnt get to test the tfi module, will play around with it after school tomorrow since i dont have to work.

 

[Chuckman]

anyone? anyone?



Bueller?


alright, well just got back from school, gonna run outside, take off that module and have the parts store check it out. keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Chuckman]

alright, got the module checked and its good....parts store guy said maybe the distributers bad?? really beats me, i just dont want to be replacing parts i dont really have to.

 

[HISSIN50]

Chuck, I am not sure exactly where you are at with diagnostics and component testing/renewal, but here is an article that might be useful for dynamic testing (since a static bench test of the TFI passed).

Good luck.

 

[Chuckman]

thanks for the link hissin, ill look over it and see what happens. so far, ive done the following to diagnose/try to fix:
checked for spark from coil (held dist wire next to block to check for spark, none)
checked red wire on injector 1, pulses at 12v with key at ON position
checked red wire on coil, same as at injector.
changed coil, still no start
tested tfi, found good
checked dist for moisture, but dry and clean

should i take it that that connector under the dash does absolutly nothing? it just seems too coincedental.

 

[jrichker]

Work your way through the No Start Checklist and you will find the problem.

I have a complete 89 Mustang Wiring & Vacuum diagram set in Adobe PDF format. Send me your email address and I will send you the ZIP file. It is 2.4 MB, too big to fit through the Stangnet mail slot. You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

 

[HISSIN50]

thanks for the link hissin, ill look over it and see what happens. so far, ive done the following to diagnose/try to fix:
checked for spark from coil (held dist wire next to block to check for spark, none)
checked red wire on injector 1, pulses at 12v with key at ON position
checked red wire on coil, same as at injector.
changed coil, still no start
tested tfi, found good
checked dist for moisture, but dry and clean

should i take it that that connector under the dash does absolutly nothing? it just seems too coincedental.

JRichker is right on.

Also, we appreciate the synopsis. I might be too tired but a couple things seem a little off (well one does, others are comments). This is all hit in JR's checklist.

The 12 volt supply to the injectors is constant - it should not pulse. Nor should it pulse (AFIAK) if the distributor mainshaft is not turning. The computer pulses the ground to the injectors, based on input from the PIP, which is dependant upon the dizzy turning.

Not that it happened to you, but I have been fooled with that type of spark testing, esp when the battery is getting worn down from cranking/diagnostics.
I would end up with too large an air gap with the screw or whatever I was using, and the test was invalid.
I would use a spark-testing tool (from the parts store tool aisle), or if you are shadetree like me, toss an old spark plug in the plug wire. Set the threads of the plug against the upper intake and crank - watch for spark jumping the plug gap. Going one step further is a tip from Tom Moss, in which he affixed a ground wire with an alligator clip to the threads of said spark plug. Now you dont even need to make sure the threads of the plug are grounding through the intake - you can just clip the alligator clip to a grounded bracket, etc (not near the battery).

None of this matters, as a quick run through JR's list again will have you up and running in no time.

Good luck.

 

[Saleen0679]

should i take it that that connector under the dash does absolutly nothing? it just seems too coincedental.

According to my diagram that connector tees out of the neutral sense circuit, but it isn't connected to anything. The one in my car is just sitting there stuck against a metal bracket.