Car won't start with SPOUT plugged in..bad computer???

Methodical

Active Member
Dec 1, 2003
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Is this a sign of a bad computer?

New: Distributor (stator was bad), coil and TFI test as good.

The car won't start with the spout connector plugged in and using the stock ignition system but it will start without the spout plugged in.

Now, the car will start and run with the spout connected or unconnected with the MSD6al ignition system but I get some misfire when cruising in say 4th gear at 2200 rpms.

What diagnostics can be done to verify a bad computer?

If it is a bad computer, where can I get a computer other than a salvage yard?

Thanks


Update: Started the car (stock ignition) without spout connected let it idle to normal operating temperature and then checked for any codes - no codes. So I then installed the spout while the car was running and it ran with the spout connected, just won't start with the spout connected.
 
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BlownFiveLiter

have car, will race....wait, it doesn't run
Nov 29, 1999
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Do you have any codes at all? How's your balancer look? If the outer ring is spun at all, it could be throwing your timing off, so when you put the spout back in, the timing is advanced too far to allow an easy start. Just for kicks, dial your timing back a bit and try to start it again with the spout in.
 

Methodical

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Dec 1, 2003
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Do you have any codes at all? How's your balancer look? If the outer ring is spun at all, it could be throwing your timing off, so when you put the spout back in, the timing is advanced too far to allow an easy start. Just for kicks, dial your timing back a bit and try to start it again with the spout in.


No codes at all everything checked out ok.

The initial timing is at 10* now, how far do you suggest I go back to.
 

HISSIN50

"How long does it take to get help in here?
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Nov 29, 1999
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Do you know how your spout voltage is? As I recall, if it's below about 5 volts, the car will barely idle. I check it at each leg of the SPOUT connector plug itself.

If your SPOUT voltage drops when you plug in the SPOUT, that will be telling (and backwards of how it should be).

I also like the idea of running the timing up and down to get the car to run SPOUT-in. I'd just install the SPOUT and have the wife crank the engine while spinning the dizzy manually (being cognizant of the risk of being shocked). When it starts, pull the SPOUT to see how wonky your base (SPOUT out) timing is. If it's off by a mile, something is up. But you'll know the puter seems to be working ok.
 

GTA_V6_Mustang

Active Member
Nov 29, 2004
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Do you know how your spout voltage is? As I recall, if it's below about 5 volts, the car will barely idle. I check it at each leg of the SPOUT connector plug itself.

If your SPOUT voltage drops when you plug in the SPOUT, that will be telling (and backwards of how it should be).

I also like the idea of running the timing up and down to get the car to run SPOUT-in. I'd just install the SPOUT and have the wife crank the engine while spinning the dizzy manually (being cognizant of the risk of being shocked). When it starts, pull the SPOUT to see how wonky your base (SPOUT out) timing is. If it's off by a mile, something is up. But you'll know the puter seems to be working ok.

See now if only i could get you to go to my post to help me out:rolleyes:
 

Methodical

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Dec 1, 2003
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Clinton, MD
Do you know how your spout voltage is? As I recall, if it's below about 5 volts, the car will barely idle. I check it at each leg of the SPOUT connector plug itself.

If your SPOUT voltage drops when you plug in the SPOUT, that will be telling (and backwards of how it should be).

I also like the idea of running the timing up and down to get the car to run SPOUT-in. I'd just install the SPOUT and have the wife crank the engine while spinning the dizzy manually (being cognizant of the risk of being shocked). When it starts, pull the SPOUT to see how wonky your base (SPOUT out) timing is. If it's off by a mile, something is up. But you'll know the puter seems to be working ok.


I will give it a try (twisting the distributor while cranking).

Now about that 5v. Are you saying that there should be a 5v reference at the spout plug - both wires? If so can I check for voltage with the KOEO. Or am I off track here?

Thanks
 

HISSIN50

"How long does it take to get help in here?
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Nov 29, 1999
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I will give it a try (twisting the distributor while cranking).

Now about that 5v. Are you saying that there should be a 5v reference at the spout plug - both wires? If so can I check for voltage with the KOEO. Or am I off track here?

Thanks

Nope, not a 5V reference; it uses a 12 volt scale (though it seems to not reach 12 volts. Spec is 1/3 to 2/3 battery voltage IIRC). As timing increases, the voltage increases. That's why it has a general range. I once watched my voltage while recurving my ignition with a stand-alone box, hence what I said about the idle sucking under about 5.0 volts (that was just my experience).



GTA, I've kept an eye on your thread; I just didn't have much to add. If you happened to have a spare IAC, I'd have installed it. Otherwise I think it's a sensory glitch since it happens for such a short period and possibly during a stategy change.
Checking the ECT calibration during this time is the only other thing I could think of. The sensor might be heat-soaking and suffering hysteresis. I really doubt it but it's easy to check.
 

Methodical

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Dec 1, 2003
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Clinton, MD
This is a response I got from another forum. I saw a similar comment in a 2005 post (will post thread) and that's why I asked if it could be the computer. What do you think?

I tried to get thru to some Ford techs to validate but the front line non-mechanics won't cooperate.


"when I worked at ford this is a test we used to check if the computer was bad. On a no start pull the spout if the car fires replace the computer."


Here's the 2005 thread: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=573040&highlight=spout
 

Methodical

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Dec 1, 2003
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Well for sh**s and giggles, I went outside pulled my spout and started my car, it started, so I guess that theory is BUSTED, My computer works just fine.


I think you may have misread the quote. He stated that if there's a no start issue pull the spout out and the car starts then it's the computer. You don't have a no start issue. Thanks for testing.:nice:
 

Methodical

Active Member
Dec 1, 2003
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Clinton, MD
Update: Did some testing last night but will do more. I tested for power but noticed that my batter was low (11.5v) so I had to recharge and will retest for proper voltage tonight or at least this weekend. But below are results test results. Tell me what you guys think. Oh, I tested a new (reman one) and it's not the computer that's causing the no start.


Initial Standard Tests:<?***:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
TPS (KOEO): 5.02 Vref
Spark at the plugs:
Stock system: no spark
MSD system: spark
Spark at the coil:
Stock system: spark
Pulse at the fuel injectors (noid light): yes
<O:p></O:p>
Coil voltage: 9.77v (measured between + coil jack and ignition ground jack (distributor harness). Note: battery voltage was at 11.5v during test. Recharged battery but not yet checked again.


Checked for PIP signal at ICM<O:p></O:p>
Stock system:
<O:p></O:p>
SPOUT connected, placed test light on pin 6 while cranking. Result: no flash
SPOUT disconnected, placed test light on pin 6 wile cranking: Result: no flash. Remove test light while car is being cranked and car starts, touch pin 6 car dies. Will retest.
<O:p></O:p>
Checked for signal at SPOUT<O:p></O:p>
Stock system:
<O:p></O:p>
SPOUT connected, back probed both sides of SPOUT with test light connector while cranking. Result: no flash
SPOUT disconnected, back probed wire going to ICM (need to verify wire though) while cranking: Result: flash and car will starts. Note: I tested with and with out the coil connected out of curiosity
SPOUT disconnected, back probled wire going to PCM (need to verify) while cranking: Result: no flash and no start. Note: I tested with and with out the coil connected out of curiosity
<!-- / message -->
 

interceptor_93

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
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Hello Methodical???

Hey did you ever got to fix your car?!?!?! Mine its doing the exact same think and i can't get it to work... Some times it does turn on but dies after a minute or less..

Oh by the way I did the codes on KOEO and i'm getting code 84, 118 and 18!!!


any help that i can get will be really appreciated!!!

Thank You!!!:nice:
 

Venom351R

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Apr 27, 2002
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18 - Spark Out (SPOUT) Circuit Open (R), Loss Of Ignition Diagnostic Module Input To PCM/SPOUT Circuit Grounded (M)


84 - EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) Control Circuit Failure (O)

118 - ECT Sensor Circuit Above Maximum Voltage of 4.6 volts (O), ECT sensor circuit has intermittently failed above the maximum of 4.6 volts (M)


O= KOEO
R= KOER
M= memory, continuous
 

interceptor_93

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
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So what does that mean Venom351R???

Sorry!.. i do know some about cars but i'm not an expert ,,, so what do i have to do next ?

I already replaced the pip sensor, ignition coil and nothing the car seems o start some times but dies and with the spout plug disconnected it will start fine...

I also installed my EEC in to my friends car and worked great on his car ,, so i know is not the EEC...

by putting that (m) besides the code 18 and 118 what does that mean???

I already did some ohms reading on my spout wires and everything seems to be ok ,,,,well i read 0 ohms so im thinking they are ok

Im about to pull my hair out!!!:D:D:D:D


Thank You!!!!
 

HISSIN50

"How long does it take to get help in here?
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
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Did you say that when it won't start, if you pull the SPOUT connector, it does start?

Have you checked for spark and injector pulsing in both scenarios?
 

interceptor_93

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
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Well guys ,, a friend of mine lended me a used dizzy to check if that was the problem and nothing ,, but his TFI was brand new,, so what i did is since my pip sensor is brand new also, I put his TFI to my dizzy and worked great !!!

I didnt want to replace the TFI because i took it to AZ and it tested good ,,, I even tested my self after i took it off the dizzy to replaced with my friends and tested good!!

I left the car running for about half an hour and never died ,, and then shut it off and turned back on and worked great!!!

Im going to run'it like that and see how it works since its going to the body shop for a complete restoration and im not going to see him in problaby 2 months... jejejejeje


Hopefully it stays like that ....

THANK YOU All for your help!!!!:nice::nice::nice:
 

HISSIN50

"How long does it take to get help in here?
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
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He must have been a fox guy who came across this thread while searching and didnt realize it was in 94-95 land.

FWIW, you should have two digit codes if you have a fox. If you have a 94-95, you'll have three digit codes. You won't have both however.
 

interceptor_93

New Member
Jul 22, 2010
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Oops....sorry !!!

Yeah mine is a fox and didnt realize this was a 94-95 thread ...

But anyways my car is working again and that's what counts!!!


Thank You!!! :nice::nice::nice::nice::nice: