Carb Tuning & Ignition Situation

andrewsg

Founding Member
May 24, 2002
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Wilton,CT
Good Afternoon Fellow Carnuts,

I'm having an issue on a car right now that is just driving me nuts. First off I have an engine builder working for me that needs a beating -- the first issue is as follows.

The car is a 1986 Mustang GT, it has a 1974 Motor in it a 302 not a "5.0".
He insists to use the late model firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, meanwhile I'm a firm believer that the thing needs the old school firing order of what I BELIEVE is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. He won't even try it and when I went to his 'dyno room' to swap it out he screamed, yelled and bitched me out and now he basically has my motor hostage.

Am I correct? One last thing -- its a Mallory Unilite Comp 9000 distributor. With no vacuum advance and no real 'idle advance' it has 40 degrees of timing at idle from what he is telling me.

Whatever -- the second problem is an AED modified 650 Holley called their 'Eliminator'. Its a 650 with a 850 baseplate or something to that effect. Squirters are 31 primary, 35 secondary, 69 Primary jets, 80 secondary. Power valve is a 2.5 (the vacuum is around 5-6 inches, no I dont have a vacuum leak). PVRC is .055 primary. High sped bleed is .031 in both pri/sec.
Idle bleed is .070 in both pri/sec. Idle restriction is .031 pri, .033 sec.
Pink accelerator pump cams and 30cc accelerator pumps.

Car is a same as above, 2900 lbs, no gear in the rear (3.08s), 5 speed. 302 9.5 to 1 compression, Victor Jr Intake manifold, forged internals, R302 block. Ultradyne cam (243int/251ex @.050) Gross Valve Lift of 571int/594exh. 1.7 Erson Roller Rockers, World Products Windsor SR Heads. Granted the car has a powerband for the 'higher' rpms.
Really a drag motor. Car really has no low end, due to the big plenum intake and the cam. Car is equipped with Nitrous (125 Horsepower wet kit).

Any idea on where I should start with this thing? It drives OK but it really has no nut. I've spoken with AED and they've helped me out with everything Ive asked but right now they are kinda scratching their heads telling me basically trial and error because the carb is MADE for smallblock fords. Ive USED an AED eliminator carb before and it is one AWESOME carb. I'm not riding AED's nuts at all, its just amazing how it worked on one car and the other it hasnt.

Sorry for the long ass post. Let me know what yall think.
 
was the camshaft designed to run 302 or 351 firing order? only reason why they went to 351 firing order was to relieve the stress off the crank. if the cam was for 351 order it needs to be that, otherwise it will not run as good as it should.
 
Yeah -- the cam card from Ultradyne, Inc says Engine: 289/302 ford.

So I'm guessing its not a 351 grind? Or what else should I check. I have the card in front of me.. Does the lobe lift or separation help determine anything about what its for or?

Best Regards,
Gered
 
should say on the card if its 13726548 or 15426378 firing order. if it doesnt i'd call the cam manufacturer up and ask.

edit: i noticed youre running 308 gears. tha will sacrifice some low end. if they installed the cam straight up without advancing it that will make your low end not as snappy.
 
Nope, doesnt say that on the card. Just says the following:
Engine: 289/302 FORD
Cam Grind No. NF54/NF52-F6
Cam Serial No. G5920
Duration at .050 243 Intake 251 Exhaust
Lobe Lift: .3569 Intake .3716 Exhaust
Lobe Separation:106 Degrees
Seat Duration at .020: 272 Intake 280 Exhaust
Gross Valve Lift: 571 Intake 594 Exhaust
Valve Lash Hot: .016 Intake .016 Exhaust
Seat Timing, Intake:35 BTDC: 57 ABDC: 100
Seat Timing, Exhaust:71 BBDC:29 ATDC:112

On the back it gives break in procedure and the recommended valve spring #2021-16 (World Heads).

I call and call and all i get is a busy signal hence the reasoning behind questioning forum individuals.


EDIT: Just got off the phone with them -- they CANNOT tell me what the firing order is. Its one of the older cams that they made that they do not have 'on file' I gave them the serial number and the guy was like whoa.. an oldie but goodie. He could tell me about his 'ol 289 with it in it. But he couldnt tell me the firing order. he basically told me hold the cam in your hand and turn it and see which valves open in what order.

Greaaaat.. Sorry no that doesnt help. Freaking asshats. I cant justify tearing this engine apart. There HAS to be some other way of figuring this out.

DAMNIT. @$*@_)*@_*$)_@$*_@$*)

Regards,
Gered
 
Yeh -- but the car cams along but it runs like ass -- it runs but it has NO power.

So eh I guess I'l try the older firing order for the helluva it.

If it runs better, all the most excellent. Its funny you should mention 4:10s. They were ordered sunday and should be here TODAY. W00t. Thats a good thing :). Now I just have to rob the pinion depth tool from my old job :).

Anyone on the carb situation? Eric you running an eliminator from AED or what carb are you running from them? If its in the 650-750 range whats it setup as?
 
Yeh -- but the car cams along but it runs like ass -- it runs but it has NO power.

So eh I guess I'l try the older firing order for the helluva it.

If it runs better, all the most excellent. Its funny you should mention 4:10s. They were ordered sunday and should be here TODAY. W00t. Thats a good thing :). Now I just have to rob the pinion depth tool from my old job :).

Anyone on the carb situation? Eric you running an eliminator from AED or what carb are you running from them? If its in the 650-750 range whats it setup as?


I wasn't sure because you said it did have some power up high. What did it make on the dyno? The AED carb I run is a custom 750 dp that's polished and calibrated to my combination. It flows around 850. I've had real good results with AED over the years. With your cam's duration figures, it probably isn't going to have much down low till you get to 4200 rpms or so and should be strong through around 7200.