Catch Can or Air Oil Separator???

Oil seperator

I used this set up from Moroso. I also had the tiny seperator can from steeda and it worked as well but i replaced with this one.

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My understanding was if you are N/A you keep your factory PCV and run the closed oil/air separator like the moroso one I got, But if you are supercharged or turbocharged you run the catch can with the breather... I don't know...

I used the moroso one just in case if i "ever" go supercharger i can just drilled the top and add the breather.
 
Well i am going to get a breathered catch can friday and i am going to plumb both the valve cover and pcv valve to it and i will let ya guys know what i come up with. I was also thinking bout putting a breather on the valve cover also. Thanks for the help and feed back tho!
 
you dont need the breather on the valve cover if you have the catch can. The reason most guys go to the catch can is to avoid having a push in style breather falling onto the headers during hard acceleration and causing a fire under the hood.
 
I see no proof, or pudding

The pudding is the fact that it's done in the first place. If you want to learn more then go and hunt around the internet to learn about engine ventilation. I am here to give advice to the OP, and am not here to provide documentation. I have a degree in aeronautics which is how I became aware of these things. Even jet engines have a pcv system.

Race cars don't always have positive crankcase ventilation because they never put enough miles on the engine to be concerned with ventilation, and that outweighs that added complication of adding the system. But don't worry, you wouldn't be the first person to try and apply race car logic to street cars on this website.

Kurt
 

I really dont care about what degree you have, has nothing to do with this thread and neither do jet engines. If you have any links or documentation on why the PCV stuff is better than i catch can i would love to read it. Im interested in learning about the facts but when you say stuff you should have information to back it up.
 
I see no proof, or pudding

It's pretty much common knowledge that when running breathers and no PCV that the oil gets contaminated sooner and requires more frequent changing.

With a breather or catch can (which is just a remote breather system) the oil vapor exits the engine by rising to the top and through the breather opening. With a PCV or vac pump system the vapor is sucked out under vacuum which is more efficient and gets more of the contaminants out.

Kind of like an exhaust fan versus an open window....which works better?
 

 
That wasn't too hard to find, thanks Noobz347. The point is that when I state an opinion it's your choice to believe it or not. Whether you do or not doesn't bother me.

Kurt
 
A good catch can system is run hoses from PCV and valve covers holes to a ventilated can (can be a homemade PVC pipe with threaded caps and fittings for the hoses and a little filter on top) filled with activated carbon . Then , change the carbon every six months or early , and empty the moisture from can every month ...

The activated carbon eliminates odors and corrosive vapors from the catch can . And is cheap too ...
 
Kind of pointless to run a line from the pvc to the catch can. It's not going to fkow anything of there is no vacuum to suck it open.

Kurt
It's one more "calibrated leak" to relief the pressure of a blown motor when on boost .Together with the valve covers hoses breathers running to a catch can , it's a good non-vacuum system . It's calibrated since that is compensated in the calibration (maf transfer).

With a NA car is a plus , but since it's a open blow-by system with no vacuum , can help in a evacuation of the moisture . All that is for those that won't use a closed system (PCV) .

With car idling , you can see the gases leaving from the PCV hole back in the intake (condensation with moistures). I can see with a flashlight in dark garage.
 
LOL you guys are goin deep with this one! Thanks for the help tho. The catch can i was looking at has fittings on both sides of it. If i was to run one side back to the intake do you think i wild still suck the oil thro or wld it separate before the intake? If i did it that way it would still be like the stock but with a catch can in the middle right?
 


If you run the catch can from the PCV on one side to the intake on the other side then yes, it will work just fine for what it is. The can will catch whatever is forced into it from the PCV port (to a point).

If you're running breathers on the valve covers with that setup, then your intake will pull air from those breathers into the intake when at idle or cruising at part throttle. That means you're pulling unmetered air into the intake. It's the same has having a vac leak. The cure is to use breathers with integrated check valves. Air will be allowed to exit (under boost) but not enter.
 
If it's that home depot air/water separator , in my case it doesn't work. With NA h/c/i it continued suck oil thro ... Later I made a large panel to block the oil inside my RPM2 lower intake and other larger separator , but the problem was just minimized. So , I changed to a open system.
If he compensate in the modeling MAF tuning , no problem with unmetered air into intake . There are some cars that are original with a hose collecting clean air from the box filter before the MAF (Ford Focus, Ford Ka, some volkswagen cars , Audis ,Etc.) . The Maf is calibrated for that leak .
 

If you're getting excessive oil through the separator/catch can then you're trying to pull too much air volume through the small orifice. Potential cures are:

Multiple routes of travel (more lines pulling air form more sources)
Opening up the sources you have

Either way, by increasing the size/number of port(s) you decrease the volume of air through a single small port causing the air to slow down. The slower that air moves, the fewer heavier particles (oil droplets) you will pick up. If the top of your motor is also continuously flooded with oil (i.e. HV oil pump), then you're increasing the amount of oil that gets splashed up by both cam and crank and vaporize a larger volume of oil.




You cannot tune for a vac leak with a, "calibrated" MAF. No manufacturer would take that on since the volume of air allowed to enter the motor unmetered will vary greatly from motor to motor.

You could do it by changing fuel mapping through a dyno tune or programmer fed with information from a wideband o2 meter but hardware wise? Not so much.

The Maf is calibrated for that leak .

Incorrect. The EEC is tuned to operate correctly with build of the engine. What's more, our cars are not tuned for that same circumstance. If you change the inlet characteristics of the Focus then you have to tune to compensate for changes. The same is true with our EEC though the technology of our EEC is not as modern as a new Focus.
 
It's not incorrect . I have a friend that is engineer at Ford , in engine calibration department , and was him that gave me this hint . He help me modeling my MAF curve (using tweecer/BE , widebands , EGT and gas analyzer devices) in a engineering college dynamometer class (where he was teaching). My car run on pure ethanol or gasoline (here gas has 25% ethanol) with a open blow-by like a factory car (idling 700 RPM with Crane 2031) . He told me that the basic calibrations systems on Ford is very similar what we have with ours strategies (CBAZA). No problem to calibrate to an vacuum leak because is a programmed leak. It's not a leak because is a open system .
 

You just proved my point. The fuel table are modified at the EEC, not the MAF.
 

Well my plan was to run the PCV valve and valve cover in one side of the breather catch can and out the other side to the intake. Now that will be a open system right? If i used a closed catch can it would still be a closed system right? This is a bit confusing but still understanding what ya guys are talking bout. My plan was to run the set up like i just said with the breathered catch can. I didn't really want to put i breather on the valve cover.
 
Anytime you have a place in the induction system for the motor to pull ambient air that is NOT measured by the mass air flow sensor, you have an open system.

If you were to put a check valve on the catch can so that air can exit the can and not enter, then you would still have a closed system. The reason is that, air exiting through the can would be blow-by air having already been measured prior to combustion.

If the induction system is able to pull air into the intake through the catch can, then it can cause an air/fuel ratio problem depending of the amount of air that is allowed to enter.

I think what advent is trying to say above, is that this additional air can be tuned for. On that, he is correct. You can tune your fuel tables and curves to compensate for the additional unmetered air. The EEC will do this through adaptive controls but only to a point. Adaptive strategies ahve a pretty narrow ability and are intended to make minor changes and allow for small differences in engine and environment. It's not within their ability to adapt for major leaks.