Does anyone have a pin out diagram for a 2002 mustang ccrm? Or can you at least tell me if the ccrm in any way provides power to fuse number 35? We are having a problem with a ccrm on a car and noticed that fuse slot 35 has no power to it.
I'm glad you spotted the thread burns. I was on the net untill early this morning trying to diagnose this car. Its kind of a long story so please hang in there and I'll will relay as much info as possible.
It started with a car that has sat for the past two years. We went to install a motor and once the motor was in we threw a battery in that tested with our multimeter to have 13.2volts. The pats light would go out after 3 seconds and would stay off while cranking. The motor would turn over but didn't have fuel and from the best that we could tell, it didn't have spark either when we disconnected the plug at the coil pack and checked for a volt signal while cranking.
After reading a thread with a fuel pump issue I started running a test that you had told the guy in that thread to do in order to see if the pump was good. However instead of using a charger I got lazy and grabbed my booster pack to see if I could at least get the pump to run. When I grabbed my pack, I tried checking the voltage with the Fluke meter we had been using all evening. The fluke meter showed the booster pack to have 17 volts which I knew couldn't be right. I then rechecked voltage on booster pack with a different multimeter and the second meter only showed 13v in the pack which was more along the lines of what I expected.
At that point I checked the battery volts on the car and found similar. The Fluke meter showed 13.8 but the second meter showed 10.6. At that point I quit using the Fluke and grabbed the battery charger figuring I may have found the problem. Well as the battery voltage came up,I heard the ccrm go nuts and start clicking. Followed by the cooling fans turning on. That's when I got in the car and noticed the security light flashing rapid. And then it slowed to 1 flash followed by 6 flashes for the pats code. I'm not at the car right now, but the one cluster code that stuck out was the one scp code. Pcm doesn't appear to be awake at all. Odometer is full of dashes, and the only lights on are the low fuel light and the theft light.
Now as soon as the key is turned on the fans turn on, the fuel pump won't cycle and the pcm appears to be not working. Datalink is hot, but scanner will not communicate with the pcm.
Not sure if I missed any details but I will answer any questions you have. I checked the ccrm pin outs you mentioned in another thread and the hot ones had voltage and the negative ohmed out good with the battery negative. Checked for voltage at the inertia switch and there was power getting thru. Also had voltage getting to the fpdm. Also checked fuses under the hood and under the dash.
Sorry its kinda long. Any help you can provide will be appreciated
OBTW; on later MY cars the PATS is tripped by disconnecting the battery. Reset with the key FOB or by unlocking the driver's door with the key (assuming everything is working as it should).
We need to run a few key tests to let us know how to proceed.
CONFIRM that the grounds around the radiator core support are clean and tight.
CONFIRM that the battery terminals are clean and tight. The negative terminals are bad about spliting. Don't cut corners here. Low voltage to the CCRM will cause all of the symptoms mentioned.
Confirm the engine ground strap between the left hand motor mount and frame rail.
Test voltage at the alternator B+. Post.
Confirm the battery junction box main power terminal is clean and tight. Test the voltage. Post.
Confirm fuse F1.26 is good. Next monitor the voltage coming out of fuse F2.34 with the key on. If voltage is not good, suspect a problem in the dash key ignition switch.
Confirm fuse F2.2 and F2.8 are good. Test the voltage coming out with the key on. Post.
If you positive the voltage is good to F2.34 and CCRM is still making noise, then double check the grounds from the CCRM. Also double check that the PCM/CCRM ground around the battery is connected. It's a single round connector with two wires (BL and BL/WH) and two BLACK wires coming out.
Once the voltage and grounds to the CCRM are confirmed, then likely a new CCRM is in your future.
OBTW, the double post can be deleted or one edited to remove the detail.
I don't have the key fob for the car, but I have tried locking and unlocking the door with the key. I have also confirmed that the terminals are tight and clean. The ground strap going to the motor from the battery has been checked and cleaned also on the motor mount as well as the ground strap that goes from the mount to the frame rail. I will check voltage numbers and post them up in a little bit. All the fuses tested good, but I will check and confirm voltage. And there is voltage at the alternator b post along with the post at the junction box
OK, so far this morning I checked over everything you had listed and have the following
*all grounds on radiator core support have been removed, cleaned and tightened back down
*pulled battery terminals, cleaned them again to be sure and re-tightened along with confirming condition was good
*rechecked grounds on motor to frame and motor ground to battery.
*tested battery voltage on alternator b post and at junction box. Had 12.8 volts
*checked fuse 1.26 and had 12.8
*checked fuses 2.2, 2.8 and 2.34. all had 12.8 volts with key on
At that point I started checking the pins on the ccrm since I have the diagram now. What I found was all the hot wires and the one keyed hot wire all had good voltage. And the grounds also showed to be good with the key off(4-5 ohms resistance). Then when I turned the key to the on position all the grounds showed to have anywhere from 90-120 ohms resistance. So I checked a little further and found the condition to be the same on the radiator support grounds.
Theft light is still flashing, electric fans are still running as soon as the ignition is turned on and I still cannot get the scanner to communicate with the pcm. And the cluster code was d0262, missing scp message
I'm assuming that the CCRM is no longer making any noise. You should be able the hear the relays inside the CCRM click once when the ignition is switched on. Constant clicking is a problem.
Ohm measurements should be taken on inactive circuits. Current flow will alter the readings.
Measure the key off resistance from the CCRM pin#15 (BK/WH) back to battery negative. Post. This value should be very low. If not, the CCRM is not grounded.
Measure the key on voltage at the ignition COP circuit. Easiest place is the RED wire to the radio interference capacitors. Post.
Confirm there is +12 volts (key off) on both sides of fuse F2.21.
The following voltage measurements are to be taken at the CCRM with the key on. CCRM pin#24(RD). CCRM pin#5 (DG/YE). Recommend using battery negative as the other test point. Post.
Has this car ever worked since the engine swap? Have you looked for rodent damage? Consider inspecting the PCM connector for rodent/water damage.
There are a number of smaller connectors around the battery and BJB that are frequently overlooked during a motor swap. Recommend double checking your work. Look for any missed connectors or any connectors not fully seated.
If power is coming out of the CCRM RED wire and the ignition RED circuit is powered, we have to start looking at a PCM problem or a bad PCM ground.
If you look at each of the COP connectors you will note there is a RED power wire to each COP.
There are also two radio interference capacitors located near the front of the engine. These are on the same circuit. Back probe the connector for easier access to the ignition circuit.
OK, I figured out what the capacitors were once I took a look at the engine bay. They are the single wire connector pieces mounted on the front of the head.
Anyway, I have the following
* Key off ground resistance from battery post to pin 15 on ccrm is 1.7 ohms
* Key on voltage at capacitors was 12.8
* Fuse 2.21 has 12 volts on both sides
* On the ccrm you asked for voltage numbers on pins 23 and 5. However pin 23 was the a/c coil, so I assumed it may have been a typo instead of pin 24. Anyway, 5 and "24" had 12.8 volts
And to answer your question, no the engine has never ran since the engine swap. We just swapped the motor in on new years eve. I have been chasing this issue every since. But as I mentioned early in the thread, the pcm used to communicate with my scanner, the theft light would go out before and during crankin and the cluster used to work. Now midways thru lookin for why the car had no fuel, and appeared to have no spark, it seems as thought the pcm went down also.
As for rodents, that was the first thing I looked for. The only sign of damage I have seen is some nesting on top of the fuel tank. But the rest of the car looks good and the wiring on top the fuel tank looks good. I have also tried disconnecting the fuel tank connector harness to eliminate it from the wiring in case any of it was shorting out. And you are correct, the ccrm has stopped making the clicking noise.
I will go back out and recheck my connections over by the battery again. I had checked them once before when all the problems began and didn't see anything wrong. I am also going to study the connector diagram you attached and check back shortly
A couple of things bother me. The CCRM was making a clicking noise typically associated with low voltage. After cleaning the grounds, it is no longer making the noise. This indicates that something has changed from the work done already.
The ignition power comes from CCRM pin #24. From there is goes straight to the RED engine ignition circuit. We also have fuel pump power as expected. The conclusion to draw is that the CCRM is doing it's job.
Key on power has also been confirmed coming out of fuse F2.2 and F2.8 (right?). F2.2 powers the PCM. But it appears that the PCM is not powering up.
Some causes that come to mind are a bad ground or a high resistance power connnection such that the PCM is not actually getting the +12 it needs. A high resistance connection would show up as good voltage with no load but the voltage would drop as soon as a load were applied.
The ground Ohm values from the CCRM back to battery negative look good.
Suggest going back and double checking all of the fuses in the battery junction box. Confirm there is +12 volts on both sides. Make double sure that the bolt holding the battery cable to the BJB is tight.
Is it possible that the PCM has been fried by excessive voltage from the booster?
The clicking noise from the ccrm showed up while I had the charger set on 15 amps to try to bring the voltage up. I have spot checked the voltage and it has never seen more than 13.5 volts. And I have never used the charger to boost it while starting. I did check all the grounds to the pcm and they were all around .3 ohms resistance. And both constant positive feeds along with the switched ignition feed is getting to the connector at the pcm.
One other thing I noticed while trouble shooting the fuel pump the other night before all this started was that the pump had 12v at the pump connection but didn't have a ground signal. Is the ground for the fuel pump controlled by the pcm in any way??
I did also find out that the owner of the car didn't want to accept that the motor was locked up and spent some time messing with the wiring, including the pcm before giving up. In fact when I pulled the kick panel down by the pcm I could see where some of the stuff has been messed with.
The problem is I don't know enough about the electronics on these. I'm assuming that the ccrm is getting a signal from something other than the pcm. As a result it is powering up, but the pcm isn't?? And what about the "theft" light flashing??? Is that because the pcm is dead and not communicating??
The fuel pump is not susposed to have a ground signal. If it did, there would be a problem. For the 99-04 MY, the FPDM controls voltage to the FP via rapidly turning on/off the power (duty cycle).
The PCM sends commands to the FPDM. The FPDM is responsible to power the FP.
If the PCM is not coming alive, the FPDM will not get a signal from the PCM tell it to prime the FP.
If the PCM is not coming alive, the PATS module will not get the SCP messsages needed to unlock.
Yehh, I'm thinking the same. Was kind of hoping it wasn't, but I've exhaust pretty much everything else. I just got finished running the scanner on it and had access to the GEM module and it is power up ok, it just isn't getting the SCP signal from the PCM. I was also able to get into the ABS and airbag stuff. Everything but the PCM
I guess the thing that was messing me up was I was getting power to the FPDM and had power at the inertia switch. I at first just assumed that the PCM was sending the signal for the 12v hot and it was working. It's just driving me nuts that the cluster did work right after the engine install, and so did the security. And I used to be able to link to the PCM to run datalogging. Now all the PCM connections are gone. And it was right after I noticed the battery voltage was low and charged the battery.
Consider performing a visual inspection of the PCM. Remove the protective covers. Often damage is easily seen (burnt components).
Re-man units are available from your local autoparts store. Often re-man PCM's arrive with PATS disabled making it easier to drive the car for reprogramming.
Car-part.com is another source for a salvage unit.
Still go back and check your work. I remember working with a poster that removed fuses to test. When the fuse was re-installed, the fuse was not inserted correctly. Caused alot of confusion and sent everyone on a wild goose chase. Turned out to be an easy fix.
After performing a search and having damn near the same symptoms on a 03'GT as this gentleman I decided to join and see if I could get some help with mine..
Not to mention I'm not getting any love on Corral..
Anyhow PATS is tripped and CCRM is buzzing... Car ran when pulled into the shop for a engine swap.. Engine was dropped out in April.., so it hasn't sat real long.. but regardless.. following what advice was given here I have .01 at my grounds.. haven't ohm'ed it out from CCRM to eyelet yet.. just cleaned up the eyelet and batt. terminals.. anyhow what I have found wrong is fuse 2.2 and 2.8 have 5.4 volts at the with the key on and I can change the pitch of the "buzzing" when probing the fuses.. no doubt putting some load on it.. anyhow with that being said I was wanting to know what powers those fuses I'd guess.. Thanks for any assistance.. I've been at this for two days straight now.
Fuse F2.2 and F2.8 are powered from the CCRM. Not having 12 volts at these critical fuses is a real problem and would prevent the PCM from powering up. It would also cause PATS to fail.
The CCRM PCM relay is powered from fuse F1.26. So I would confirm there is 12 volts coming from that fuse.
Also confirm there is +12 volts at fuse F2.34 with the key on.
I'm at a loss to understand why you haven't confirmed ground G104 yet. You are aware that is one of the grounds likely removed during a motor swap? You are aware that the CCRM is grounded via G104 and that a poor ground is likely to result in not enough voltage to "pull in" the CCRM relay coil?
What would you think a relay might sound like if there isn't enough voltage to pull in the coil?
There are several grounds around the radiator core support. Check where they are bolted to the frame.
There are two grounds that have round connectors with black wires with white strips. One is on the right side. The other on the left near the battery. Check to see if these critical grounds are connected.
There is also a possibility this problem is caused by the ignition switch not making good contact. The tests will help narrow this down.
You really need a good set of wiring diagrams. I maybe able to help you. PM me.