Decided on a combo...which MAF with this?
- Thread starter Pokageek
- Start date
CManT1914
New Member
"The stock MAF ...is good to the 290-300rwhp range." Found that quote after digging a bit.
I don't plan to play around with the tuning on the tweecer much. I am going to use the "j" program for the cobra when I get these mods b/c it is good for 24# injectors. Other than that, fans, egr delete, smog delete, speed limiter removal and timing tables are all I plan on changing. Considering that, I am guessing I won't use it for much else so I am not too worried about the compatability with the C&L and as you can see I am cheap and would save like...$100+.
Unless I hear reasons otherwise, I may be going that route but not totally certain yet. As always, you guys are great. Thanks for anymore knowledge you would like to add!
I don't plan to play around with the tuning on the tweecer much. I am going to use the "j" program for the cobra when I get these mods b/c it is good for 24# injectors. Other than that, fans, egr delete, smog delete, speed limiter removal and timing tables are all I plan on changing. Considering that, I am guessing I won't use it for much else so I am not too worried about the compatability with the C&L and as you can see I am cheap and would save like...$100+.
Unless I hear reasons otherwise, I may be going that route but not totally certain yet. As always, you guys are great. Thanks for anymore knowledge you would like to add!
CManT1914
New Member
Pokageek said:I seem to remember a thread somewhere mentioning both of them and one was better for the tweecer. I am going to go digging some more. In the meantime, why is the ProM in your opinion after having both? Thx.
Pro-M's are better because they 1) have better electronics, and 2) come with a flow sheet that you can enter into the twEECer for tuning your stang. If you don't have a flowsheet (like you won't with a C&L) then it will be near impossible to adjust your maf curve when making adjustments.
WhiteDevil
New Member
CManT1914
New Member
Pokageek said:
To adjust a/f ratios. Timing is completely different. You have to get your maf curve dialed in before making other adjustments.
Pokageek said:
The objective is to move away from using the Calibration or Cheat method ProM uses to accomplish the following three things:
1) allow the use of larger injectors
2) allow the use of a maf that can deal with more airflow
3) not have to make pcm changes
The down side to this Cheat method is your load factors get all hosed up.
The Tweecer allows one to be able to use the real injector size value and the real air flow value in the pcm just as Ford did in the first place.
Two benefits of this method are:
1) Load factors are not effected
2) Maf transfer curve can be custom tailored for nearly dead on accuracy
As Chris said, maf transfer curve and spark are different things.
Grady
Hi Grady. Some of what you said is still flying over my head. I bought the one that is calibrated for 24# injectors for now so that I wouldn't have to fool with anything...at least I think. So I took youre all's advice and bought the pro-m. I guess you are saying the benefit of the pro-m is that you can use the tweecer to get better calibration whereas with the C&L you can't. Did I get that right?
So what if you are using the pro-m and you load factors get a little funny..what happens?
For example. I plan on slapping the TF TW heads on, the 24# injectors and the 75mm maf, loading the "J" cabaza program with all the setting I currently have for the fans and stuff and driving on down the road..with expected tweaking I guess. Is this a safe bet?
So what if you are using the pro-m and you load factors get a little funny..what happens?
For example. I plan on slapping the TF TW heads on, the 24# injectors and the 75mm maf, loading the "J" cabaza program with all the setting I currently have for the fans and stuff and driving on down the road..with expected tweaking I guess. Is this a safe bet?
Pokageek said:
Don't feel too bad about not understanding the whole maf/injector fuel & air flow thing. It is a topic that takes a bit of thinking about in order to get a grasp on it. If you want to do a bit of research, I've posted an article that I believe is really good for explaining the basics of this topic on this site several times before or you can find it on my site on the tuning page.
The C & L maf also uses a Cheat method to keep one from having to make pcm changes but where ProM uses electronics, C & L uses a mechanical method of cal tubes.
You can still tweec the maf curve if you use a C & L. I have seen many self tuners get pretty frustrated and some even give up trying get the tune as they desire using the C & L. Then again some have no probs at all with the C & L.
You don't see that kind of stuff very much with ProM's so I say lay down a bit more money and avoid the possible hassle. Seeing stuff like that over and over on the tuning sites is why I pick ProM as my first choice. While we are on the subject of maf choice ...... the 77 & 80 mm ProM's have the most accurate electronics of all their product line. That was from one of their tech guys that I spoke to at length over the phone while I was doing research on which maf I was gonna go with.
You end up using the wrong load row of values in your various tables of the pcm like fuel & spark. Considering our pcm's are load based ...... that kind of thing can end up being ...... well ...... not good.
To be honest and fair it needs to be said that 24's and a matching caled maf are not too far from stock. The farther away from stock you move the more outta whack everything gets. Thats why ... SOMETIMES ... you see a guy run 24's with a matching caled maf and have no probs. His load factors are not too inaccurate ... don't you see. Never forget, the pcm can adapt ...... somewhat.
It will work.
You will not be able to do much custom tuning in the area of drivability without the ability to datalog however.
Then again, you may not have any issues with drivability.
Grady
DarkProphet
Founding Member
I would go with a Pro M or ligtning maf. My friend "sprint stang" has a pro-m for 30#ers for sale in the classifieds section.
hypothetical question: if i get an aftermarket pro-m maf and 30lb injectors in the meantime to run lets say a nice h/c/i setup, it will work decent right?
but then later on i want to tune my car, can i still just put 30lb injectors in the chip or since the pro-m is modified will putting 30lb injectors still understate the amount of fuel needed?
but then later on i want to tune my car, can i still just put 30lb injectors in the chip or since the pro-m is modified will putting 30lb injectors still understate the amount of fuel needed?
blksn955.o
Founding Member
FWIW/IMHO The 90mm LMAF and 03-04 cobra MAF are what I plan on going with when I step up from my stock MAF.
1. Factory curve that may need alittle tune but should be realy close with the known transfers.
2. Factory electronics you will need a 15$ MAF wire kit deal to get the wires to work properly with the 94-95.
3. Is going to be reliable and plenty big enough for damn near anything (short of going to needing a blow threw MAF).
4. CHEAP as HELL.
1. Factory curve that may need alittle tune but should be realy close with the known transfers.
2. Factory electronics you will need a 15$ MAF wire kit deal to get the wires to work properly with the 94-95.
3. Is going to be reliable and plenty big enough for damn near anything (short of going to needing a blow threw MAF).
4. CHEAP as HELL.
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